Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-07-2012, 04:40   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 10
Question Need help in translation

Hello everyone,
I'm a translator/interpreter, and I'm stuck with translation of technical specifications for a patrol boat so I would like to ask for help in explaining some of the terms/phrases from this document. I must admit that in the first place I shouldn't have got into this job since I'm not a specialist at all in this field, but since it happened so I want to do my best. So I will be really grateful for any help.
(I also understand now that I chose the wrong website since it's about cruising boats but I came across it when looking for some specific terms and I did find what I was looking for. So I want to give it a try here anyway because the basic things concerning construction, finishing, mooring, etc.are similar, IMHO).

My first question is about Internal Finishes (I will be giving the exact terms as they're written in the document, and it's Indian English). This paragraph describes the finishing coating for bulkheads, sole, sides and - the first thing here that I'm not sure about is the acronym - 'DK HD'. I figured out it was 'deckhead'. Am I correct? Then in this paragraph 'gel wash' is also mentioned as the finishing for the cabin. And this is the thing that I'm really stuck with because I can't find such material/paint in the Internet at all. Or, rather, what I did find (like gel for washing cars) does not really match the other points in this paragraph, like 'gelcoat', 'painted', etc. I tried different variants in English and in Russian (the language I'm translating it to), to find something similar but unsuccessfully.
Do you have any ideas of what it could be? This 'gel wash' is applied to the mysterious DK HD and the sides.
I want to thank in advance everyone who will try to help me out
__________________

__________________
Translator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 07:58   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Need help in translation

deck head and sides would refer to vertical surfaces in the interiour of a vessel.

gel wash probably refers to the technique of applying gelcoat to the inside of fiberglass moulded panels that would be prefabricated,the once released from the mould are installed inside the cabins as the vertical surfaces with a high gloss gelcoat finish.

as opposed to using steel ,plywood or alumillium as the vertical surfaces,that once installed would be spray painted to provide a final finish.
__________________

__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 08:37   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 10
Re: Need help in translation

atoll,
thank you for your answer. Sorry I wasn't probably clear enough about my questions and my English must be confusing, my first question was whether the abbreviation DK HD means 'deck head' or it may have some other meaning.
Also, in this relation, I've got another question. In your reply you wrote:
Quote:
deck head and sides would refer to vertical surfaces in the interiour of a vessel.
Are you sure that deck head is vertical? What I have in the dictionaries is that it's the inside of the deck, so my guess is that it's horizontal. Or did I get it wrong?

And my second question in the first post was about the 'gel wash'.
In your answer you suppose that it might be a technigue of applying a gel coat. Then the question is about how it would be different from regular gel coat? In the document that I have, in this paragraph about the internal finishings they describe different compartments, such as cabin, wheelhouse, etc. and the finishing applied to their sides, sole, 'DK HD' (presumably, 'deck head'), and they do have 'gel coat' there as finishing for machinery space ('intumescent gelcoat', to be more exact). So I do know what gelcoat means but I don't know how it is different from 'gel wash'. In fact, the latter means nothing to me since I was unable to find any description of it in relation to vessels whatsoever.
There is a chance though that they intended to write 'gel coat' but somehow put 'gel wash' instead - unfortunately, this document does have many spelling errors and other misprints that make it harder for the reader and translator.

Thank you again for you help, and if anyone else wants to join in the discussion, you're welcome )
__________________
Translator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 08:52   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Need help in translation

sorry you are correct deck head would refer to the ceiling!,the sides the vertical surfaces,and the cabin sole the floor.

gelcoat is only applied to fiberglass surfaces.

applied directly to raw fiberglass it will give a rough uneven finish.
hence the gel wash description.
this is common practise for finishing the insides of fiberglass moulded objects,

gelcoat is generally applied to the inside of a moulding to provide a high finish.
once it has been laminated, the male part with the gelcoat now on the outside is exposed leaving a high gloss finish.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 09:19   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 10
Re: Need help in translation

Thank you! Let me repeat it in order to see that I get it right:
so right after a FB part is moulded it's covered with gelcoat but its surface is rough. And if we want to have a glossy look, then finishing layer (thin?) is applied. Since it's nice to have smooth walls in a cabin, the document says 'gel wash' implying that it mush have this finishing touch. And in the machinery space it's not really necessary, so it says 'gel coat'.
Or did I not get it?
__________________
Translator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 09:28   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
Re: Need help in translation

The vertical surfaces inside a boat are generally called bulkheads, unless it is interior cabinetry. The ceiling is called the overhead. The floor is called the deck.

I don't have any idea DK HD would mean. That is the problem with using acronyms, not everyone knows what they mean.

Gel wash might be something as simple as soap for washing the boats exterior, which would include the gelcoat. It might also be mold release wax. I'm just guessing.

Is there anyway to contact the person who wrote the document to have them explain what they meant?
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 09:30   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Need help in translation

no you miss understood, a fiberlass surface has two sides.

the gelcoated side and the un gelcoated side.

when released from the mould the gelcoated side retains the profile of the inside of the mould,ie high gloss.

the other side is just rough uneven fiberglass/resin,this side is generally lightly sanded to remove any spikes and loose fibers,THEN treated with a gelcoat wash that adds colour and an uneven finish,but is considered to be suitable for the insides of lockers,engine spaces etc.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 09:32   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Need help in translation

Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
The vertical surfaces inside a boat are generally called bulkheads, unless it is interior cabinetry. The ceiling is called the overhead. The floor is called the deck.

I don't have any idea DK HD would mean. That is the problem with using acronyms, not everyone knows what they mean.

Gel wash might be something as simple as soap for washing the boats exterior, which would include the gelcoat. It might also be mold release wax. I'm just guessing.

Is there anyway to contact the person who wrote the document to have them explain what they meant?
sorry david you are only complicating things! i will try post some photos
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 09:32   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
Re: Need help in translation

What is more complex?

The inside surface (the dry side of the hull) is not painted with a white epoxy?...which makes it easy to clean and keeps the area inside the boat lighter in color.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 09:43   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 10
Re: Need help in translation

David M,
thank you for your help.
I know the basic vocabulary like deck and bulk head and transom, etc., and understand what they mean, so the problem is really in the acronym. I wish I could contact them but it's impossible (there're so many things that need explanation).
Although here I'm pretty sure that it's 'deckhead', it seems quite logical in the context that I have. I'm just afraid I might have left something out since I'm not a specialist in this field (yet)).
It is the second question that worries me the most. But if I understood correctly atoll's explanations, then I'm settled with it too.
I probably didn't make it clear at the beginning that these questions are about the interior of the boat, sorry.
__________________
Translator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 09:51   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 10
Re: Need help in translation

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
no you miss understood, a fiberlass surface has two sides.

the gelcoated side and the un gelcoated side.

when released from the mould the gelcoated side retains the profile of the inside of the mould,ie high gloss.

the other side is just rough uneven fiberglass/resin,this side is generally lightly sanded to remove any spikes and loose fibers,THEN treated with a gelcoat wash that adds colour and an uneven finish,but is considered to be suitable for the insides of lockers,engine spaces etc.
Okay, I see it now but... the problem is that they use the word 'gel wash' in relation to 'cabin', which is, if I understand it correctly, is an accommodation for the crew. So if you say that gelcoat wash is applied to the rough side to add colour and some finish, which is still uneven, it means that the walls and the ceiling in the cabin will have this uneven finish?
David M isn't complicating anything, I understand what he means since it was the first thing that I came across when doing the search, I mean the 'soap' definition.
__________________
Translator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 10:07   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Need help in translation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Translator View Post
Okay, I see it now but... the problem is that they use the word 'gel wash' in relation to 'cabin', which is, if I understand it correctly, is an accommodation for the crew. So if you say that gelcoat wash is applied to the rough side to add colour and some finish, which is still uneven, it means that the walls and the ceiling in the cabin will have this uneven finish?
David M isn't complicating anything, I understand what he means since it was the first thing that I came across when doing the search, I mean the 'soap' definition.
if fiberglass has been laid on top of plywood inside the accomodation,then painting on gelcoat after it has been sanded will give the same uneven effect.

i suspect that the term gelcoat wash and gelcoat are used to differentiate between the low quality finish of a painted/sprayed gelcoat to an uneven surface and the high quality finish of a molded gelcoat.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 10:27   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 10
Re: Need help in translation

atoll,
thank you again for taking your time. I understand now what you mean, it just seems illogical to me to have rough finish inside the accommodation. Oh well. I guess I will have to go through the translation again with the customers since there're many questions like this one, which are really confusing.
Maybe, I'll continue asking them here if I get really stuck again.
__________________
Translator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 10:44   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Need help in translation

when building foam core fiberglass minesweepers all of the engeneering spaces and lower decks had this gelwash treatment on top of the raw fiberglass.
if peelply has been used on top of the last layer of laminate the finish is not too bad like this.
though generally accomodation spaces will have some sort of panelling outside of the fiberglass bulkheads to make it more human friendly!
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 16:36   #15
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Need help in translation

Translator - 2 things:-

1) it might be useful to cut and paste the original Indian English text to give some context for the terms. Of course might not . (FWIW, nadda! I think you are right that DK HD = Deck Head).

2) I have never heard of "Gel Wash" - but for out of sight and out of mind areas it would make sense (especially on a commercial boat for the inside of the hull / cabin sides to not be actual Gelcoat (that being the stuff that makes the fibreglass, smooth, looks smart and polishes up nicely ) but instead another finish, likely a coating of Fibreglass resin with the result not mirror finish smooth - as the Gelcoat would be - but instead would still have lumps and bumps, albeit the surface would be sealed.

Indeed it is the norm even with "our" sort of boats for the hull interior to have no gelcoat - for cosmetic reasons the hull is lined with a variety of things, from simply vinyl to wood or plastic mouldings (or interior furniture) - or if the boat is cheap / small, then nothing at all!.......but nonetheless the interior (inside) of the fibreglass would usually not be "raw" as if you ran your hand along it you would get either fibreglass splinters or pick up fibres from the fibreglass that never got wet from resin(or both), plus apart from that the fibreglass would not be as protected from water ingress (over many years that would become a problem in at least some places, even if not all - even though inside the boat!) and also would simply pick up dirt and stains (and would never be able to clean it properly).

On my boat the forepeak (a forecabin with no berths!) serves as storage and the head (Toilet) and is therefore intended as a working area not for recreational / lounging around use (well, if you don't call sitting on the toilet for an hour reading a newspaper recreation ) - and therefore the inside of the hull (and the deck head!) is as I described.

Would it serve as a finish suitable for crew quarters on a commercial boat? I think so. But I dunno if these specs are for a boat 100% complete, if not could be that the interior finishing will be added later (upon arrival?) and therefore the finish in the crew quarters might be prettied up at that point - anyway, that just a thought. FWIW, I had a small boat once with the same finish on the interior (the vinyl covering to pretty thing up had long since fallen off!) - I put some simple carpet on the hull sides and it transformed the look and feel of the boat (and the berths) quickly and cheaply - just mentioning that as the finish in the crew quarters (from the builders) could easily be changed later, including simply by the crew?!

Finally, probably worth hanging around on CF for a little while more as plenty of members here are ex-Navy (as well as those who worked on all manner of commercial vessels, big and small) - so will likely have first hand experiance of what the interior of a Patrol Boat usually looks like for the crew, or at least can tell you what the deal is on Aircraft carriers and submarines!....that might help get a handle on how likely the answer to your questions are - even if only to the point of being able to revert to the source to ask them to confirm what you have understood.
__________________

David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.