Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-04-2014, 08:49   #1
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Grenada
Boat: Shorebro,Royal 33 - Aloisius
Posts: 927
Need Advice on Stress Cracks

I need some help on deciphering a quote and bill. I am not questioning the dollar amount so will not include that in the discussion, only the terminology.
I originally took the boat in to have the small cracks around the stanchions repaired. In the discussion it was recommended that I have the stanchions removed and a plate be placed at the base on the deck and tie that to a plate under the deck to spread the load, bolted. Otherwise the cracks will probably reappear in time. Knowing that was the case I agreed.

I also got a quote to have small cracks repaired in other areas of the deck. All of these cracks are superficial and looked to be only in the gel coat. The boat is 31 years old. After the work was completed, there was no mention that the cracks were anything other than superficial.

The three lines on the quote are as follows:

(Item Number 1 & separate price)
Stanchion Bases


Removal and Re-installation, of all stanchion bases


(3M 4200UV caulking and new bolting system tba)

(Item Number 2 & separate price)
Stress Crack repairs, Vinylester/glass over 20:1 scarf.

(Item Number 3 & separate price)
Reforcement and modification and repairs of damaged deck areas
Stanchion Base areas, vinylester/glass lamination over 20:1 scarf techniques
Stanchion Base areas, vinylester/glass 20:1 scarf techniques integrated internal re-inforcement
External re-inforcement (pre fab) glass/polyester/gel coat


When I got the boat back I found that the stress cracks around the stanchions were still visible. I questioned this and they said that they repaired the cracks under the plates, now not visible, but left the others to be addressed when I came back to have the surface gel coated.

Question 1: It is my contention that the repairs of the surface cracks are addressed in Item 2, & 3. The future gel coating is another project.

Question 2: What exactly does it mean by 20:1 scarf?

__________________

__________________
landonshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 08:52   #2
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Grenada
Boat: Shorebro,Royal 33 - Aloisius
Posts: 927
Re: Need advice on stress cracks

Picture of stress cracks
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PICT1312.jpg
Views:	135
Size:	296.9 KB
ID:	79707  
__________________

__________________
landonshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 08:58   #3
Registered User
 
SV Windrush II's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Somewhere in the Philippines
Boat: Mariner 40 Ketch
Posts: 452
Images: 18
Re: Need advice on stress cracks

Quote:
Originally Posted by landonshaw View Post
I need some help on deciphering a quote and bill. I am not questioning the dollar amount so will not include that in the discussion, only the terminology.
I originally took the boat in to have the small cracks around the stanchions repaired. In the discussion it was recommended that I have the stanchions removed and a plate be placed at the base on the deck and tie that to a plate under the deck to spread the load, bolted. Otherwise the cracks will probably reappear in time. Knowing that was the case I agreed.

I also got a quote to have small cracks repaired in other areas of the deck. All of these cracks are superficial and looked to be only in the gel coat. The boat is 31 years old. After the work was completed, there was no mention that the cracks were anything other than superficial.

The three lines on the quote are as follows:

(Item Number 1 & separate price)
Stanchion Bases


Removal and Re-installation, of all stanchion bases


(3M 4200UV caulking and new bolting system tba)

(Item Number 2 & separate price)
Stress Crack repairs, Vinylester/glass over 20:1 scarf.

(Item Number 3 & separate price)
Reforcement and modification and repairs of damaged deck areas
Stanchion Base areas, vinylester/glass lamination over 20:1 scarf techniques
Stanchion Base areas, vinylester/glass 20:1 scarf techniques integrated internal re-inforcement
External re-inforcement (pre fab) glass/polyester/gel coat


When I got the boat back I found that the stress cracks around the stanchions were still visible. I questioned this and they said that they repaired the cracks under the plates, now not visible, but left the others to be addressed when I came back to have the surface gel coated.

Question 1: It is my contention that the repairs of the surface cracks are addressed in Item 2, & 3. The future gel coating is another project.

Question 2: What exactly does it mean by 20:1 scarf?

So for starters a 20:1 scarf means that the taper on the scarf is 20 times wider than it is deep, so that the repair has a wide area of bonding and re-enforcement.
So looks like they should have ground out the cracks with a 20:1 scarf (Taper) and reinforced it with glass like the quote said and then applied gel coat over the top.

But without looking at it, I am making some assumptions
__________________
Mariner 40 Ketch
SV Windrush II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 09:01   #4
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,201
Images: 52
Re: Need advice on stress cracks

Quote:
Originally Posted by landonshaw View Post
Picture of stress cracks

Post more pics. Pretty sure these guys are trying to get over on you. 20:1 scarf ratio refers to how wide the repairs are made, ie if they ground 1/8" deep, the repair would be 2 1/2" radius, or 5" wide. Your stanchion bases aren't that big, so what they are claiming is impossible.


The chances of that crack being just cosmetic are quite low.
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 09:03   #5
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Grenada
Boat: Shorebro,Royal 33 - Aloisius
Posts: 927
Re: Need advice on stress cracks

I will get more pics and post. Thanks for the help. Dave
__________________
landonshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 09:12   #6
Registered User
 
Fiveslide's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Boat: JBW club 420, MFG Bandit, Snark
Posts: 603
Re: Need advice on stress cracks

My opinion, unproffesional as it may be, is they didn't repair that to your expectations. To me, your expectations seem reasonable. It appears that crack extends under the stachion base and that stanchion will have to be removed, again, to repair that crack in the gelcoat properly and completely.

What that nonsense printed on your bill describes, I can't tell you. What's the old saying, "If can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull$#/!"

I think that bill reads like the latter.



Sent from my SCH-S738C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
Fiveslide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2014, 16:19   #7
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Grenada
Boat: Shorebro,Royal 33 - Aloisius
Posts: 927
Re: Need Advice on Stress Cracks

Additional pics
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PICT1309.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	386.9 KB
ID:	79725   Click image for larger version

Name:	PICT1310.jpg
Views:	121
Size:	328.7 KB
ID:	79726  

Click image for larger version

Name:	PICT1312.jpg
Views:	120
Size:	296.9 KB
ID:	79727   Click image for larger version

Name:	PICT1316.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	315.7 KB
ID:	79728  

__________________
landonshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2014, 16:34   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ventura, CA
Boat: Horstman Tristar 38
Posts: 200
Re: Need Advice on Stress Cracks

Those don't look cosmetic to me.

What exactly DID they do as far as work? I see a little bit of "whiter" paint that looks like they did some work fore and aft of the stanchion base and possibly underneath it. However, with those other cracks so nearby I really am baffled that they did not extend out the work to include repairing those cracks.

I suppose they could be planning that you would simply grind down those cracks and fill in with microballons or something else when you do the gelocat which would probably be a fine method of fixing them assuming that the original source was from the flexing stanchion base and that that has been thoroughly addressed. Of course that really seems like the cheap lame way to do it considering they were already working a half an inch away and reglassing the area anyways the amount of extra glass, resin, and time it would have taken to just take care of those at the same time wouldn't even have been noticed. You probably would have ended up with a more obvious repaired area but that's relatively insignificant if you plan to repaint in the future anyway.
__________________
natew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2014, 16:39   #9
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,345
Re: Need Advice on Stress Cracks

Was the repair internal?
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2014, 16:42   #10
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No longer post here
Boat: Catalac Catamaran
Posts: 2,462
Re: Need Advice on Stress Cracks

since when does 3M 4200 dry clear? - stanchion base - Has someone used silicone on your boat?
__________________
Tropic Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2014, 19:54   #11
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Grenada
Boat: Shorebro,Royal 33 - Aloisius
Posts: 927
Re: Need Advice on Stress Cracks

They put a plate under the stanchion, white. That is what you are seeing around the base. Under the deck they also put a plate that when the bolts went through, they tightened the plate on the deck to they plate below the deck. Spreading the load over a wider area.
I don't understand why the cracks were not repaired as that was my original issue. The deck gel coat was a future project.
There are no cracks that show work being done extending beyond the added plate. My thought is that they put the plates on and never opened up the cracks, 20:1, did the repair then put the plates on top.
__________________

__________________
landonshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
could use some interprotect advice regarding filling voids/cracks with watertitie. albergsailor Monohull Sailboats 0 16-07-2012 09:42
Island Spirit 401 Stress Cracks ElCapitan_John Multihull Sailboats 4 07-08-2010 01:32
Stress Cracks in Fibreglass RPEEVER Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 05-09-2009 14:58
Stress Cracks marty9876 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 17 12-05-2008 04:45
The Stress Free Life of Sailing cjwilding The Sailor's Confessional 17 20-10-2007 02:42



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:58.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.