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Old 26-04-2013, 16:13   #661
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Re: Nauticat 52 Refit

Minaret,

Engineering student currently.

Pex is some pretty neat material, just decided to use it for a plumbing job in a home remodel.

Forgive my ignorance, I'm just learning about boats, but what results were you seeing in your hand layup of the glass that made you decide to switch to bagging?
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Old 26-04-2013, 17:05   #662
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Re: Nauticat 52 Refit

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Originally Posted by madtart View Post
Minaret,

Engineering student currently.

Pex is some pretty neat material, just decided to use it for a plumbing job in a home remodel.

Forgive my ignorance, I'm just learning about boats, but what results were you seeing in your hand layup of the glass that made you decide to switch to bagging?


Still doing hand layup for the most part. I've done some infusion to save time but haven't got into that here yet. It will take lots of pics and some 'splainin. The pics you see here of bags are all foam core being bagged in place.

If you're doing a pex job, I think the Uponor fittings and the Milwaukee pay for themselves pretty quick, despite the price. Joints are fit and done in moments, no matter how hard to get to. If this equipment saves a few hours, it's paid for itself at plumbers rates. And it definitely does.


You will find there are a number of regular posters here who are engineers. You are not alone in that field here. Engineering types seem to gravitate towards boats.


No need for forgiveness, all questions are equal here. Have fun!
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Old 26-04-2013, 17:10   #663
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Re: Nauticat 52 Refit

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Originally Posted by Crayfish View Post
Minaret,

Thank you very much for letting me have a look over your shoulder. I wish we had boatbuilders around here like you.

Volker
I'd love to visit your neck of the woods, so why don't you just fly me in to fix it for ya!


Seriously though, from what I've seen of your skills so far, I think you'll be just fine on your own. And I'm sure there must be some exceptional builders around there somewhere.


Glad to share, hope you enjoy, and thanks for posting!
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Old 26-04-2013, 17:49   #664
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Would you kick yourself more if I told you I'm paying my helpers well too?

Pex is awesome stuff, Wirsbo tubing only for us. The Uponor fittings are like magic, amazing stuff. Did you watch the vid I posted a few pages back? Sorry, Youtube links don't always post right by iPad. It's just a link. The M12 pex a expander makes it easy to plumb a boat in no time. The Uponor expander is just too damn big, manual expanders are even worse, as you often need to make the joint in a tight spot. The manual expander is so big it becomes a two man job, because you only have a few seconds to make the join before the pex relaxes. One guy expands, then quickly hands the fitting to the guy in the cabinet. PITA. The M12 will fit just about anywhere with you, and the right angle head makes it easy to expand fittings in some deep holes. Wirsbo and Uponor require you to be a pro, no warranty for DIYers. No pex e, only pex a for Uponor fittings. Stick to Wirsbo.

I recently tossed my DeWalt. Too big, both batteries permanently dead after only two years of use. Never again. Milwaukee red lithium batteries run longer than any other system I have used. And their tools are bombproof. You get what you pay for, but we all have our preferences. Thanks for posting!

Yup, kicking harder.

I made a commitment to working for someone here who got me started working on boats, we'd reached far enough that if I left then it would have likely failed. Didn't seem fair to do that or to jump ship so to speak.

The sealand fittings we use require no tools beyond a cutter, go together in place easily, and can be disassembled without damage.

The pex I've seen in boats where we're just adding to it used no expander at all, manual or electric, only a collar and the crimper, which is why I'm curious about what the benefits are of the expander based stuff, is it cheaper?


I'll explain dewalt when I can get on a computer. If both were free I'd still take it. I just wish Milwaukee would sort out the things that are problems for me, then I'd switch, but for now nothing beats the dewalt.
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Old 27-04-2013, 06:53   #665
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Re: Nauticat 52 Refit

Like many others I have enjoyed reading about your refit and learning from your posts. I have been working on my 1968 Cal 34 since last summer, and recently decided to strip all of the gelcoat from the interior from the forward bulkhead back as it is delaminated in several areas that leaked past and present. One of those areas was where a PO installed one of those solar vents (which was totally useless for ventilation and made too much noise) or where the traveler was installed, I can't tell which one leaked but it rotted the marine plywood core near the companionway on the starboard side. The fiberglass in the outside skin was so thick you couldn't feel any weakness in the deck at all.

Here is what I found after stripping the headliner gelcoat, the round area of epoxy is where I first removed the solar vent and repaired the hole with a piece of plywood and epoxy before I realized how extensive the moisture was. Interestingly, after stripping the gelcoat it was obvious that the original layer of fiberglass cloth over the plywood was never attached to the wood for about 1/4 of the headliner. I guess the worker was drinking that day on the job? So far I cut out the wet plywood, then got a piece of scrap plywood from an abandoned sailboat and epoxied and screwed it in place, then removed the screws and fixed the screw holes (I had to go completely through the deck which I plan to paint anyway soon, nonskid area.) To fix like with like as you suggest, should I next wet the wood with a layer of epoxy, then lay up a layer of fiberglass cloth, followed by more resin to smooth it out and paint with marine paint? I am disenchanted with gelcoat. The original was sprayed on too thick and I think that and its age caused it to fail.

Also, what would you use for a backing plate for the traveler? The 18x18 inch pieces of wood were unattractive.
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Old 27-04-2013, 07:11   #666
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Re: Nauticat 52 Refit

At least the V berth area came out ok by just sanding and painting. I guess it was better ventilated.

BTW, if anyone is even remotely considering living on their boat and doing any sanding, DO NOT DO IT!!! You cannot envision the amount of toxic dust and grime generated by this process.
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Old 27-04-2013, 09:29   #667
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At least the V berth area came out ok by just sanding and painting. I guess it was better ventilated.

BTW, if anyone is even remotely considering living on their boat and doing any sanding, DO NOT DO IT!!! You cannot envision the amount of toxic dust and grime generated by this process.
It can be done. Sealing the area entirely with plastic, and running a constant vacuum works ok. Enter only from the outside hatch, leave plastic in place until it's all done.
I had to sand off layers of paint and fairing before repainting my v berth.
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Old 28-04-2013, 06:31   #668
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Re: Nauticat 52 Refit

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
I'd love to visit your neck of the woods, so why don't you just fly me in to fix it for ya!


Seriously though, from what I've seen of your skills so far, I think you'll be just fine on your own. And I'm sure there must be some exceptional builders around there somewhere.

Yes, but they're hard to find.

I have to buy one of those bloody expensive Flexicat tools (I think I've seen one on your work bench). If you had to decide would you rather prefer a short one or a longer version (1120mm)?

Thanks mate,
Volker
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Old 28-04-2013, 07:37   #669
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Re: Nauticat 52 Refit

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Yup, kicking harder.

I made a commitment to working for someone here who got me started working on boats, we'd reached far enough that if I left then it would have likely failed. Didn't seem fair to do that or to jump ship so to speak.

The sealand fittings we use require no tools beyond a cutter, go together in place easily, and can be disassembled without damage.

The pex I've seen in boats where we're just adding to it used no expander at all, manual or electric, only a collar and the crimper, which is why I'm curious about what the benefits are of the expander based stuff, is it cheaper?


I'll explain dewalt when I can get on a computer. If both were free I'd still take it. I just wish Milwaukee would sort out the things that are problems for me, then I'd switch, but for now nothing beats the dewalt.

Loyalty is good, gotta do the right thing. Main benefit of pex a with Uponor fittings is that they are pressure fittings. Excellent for installing hydronic heating systems which will have very hot water running through them at pressure. These fittings never fail, they are really top shelf. And extremely fast and easy to do.
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Old 28-04-2013, 07:46   #670
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Re: Nauticat 52 Refit

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Originally Posted by Azul View Post
Like many others I have enjoyed reading about your refit and learning from your posts. I have been working on my 1968 Cal 34 since last summer, and recently decided to strip all of the gelcoat from the interior from the forward bulkhead back as it is delaminated in several areas that leaked past and present. One of those areas was where a PO installed one of those solar vents (which was totally useless for ventilation and made too much noise) or where the traveler was installed, I can't tell which one leaked but it rotted the marine plywood core near the companionway on the starboard side. The fiberglass in the outside skin was so thick you couldn't feel any weakness in the deck at all.

Here is what I found after stripping the headliner gelcoat, the round area of epoxy is where I first removed the solar vent and repaired the hole with a piece of plywood and epoxy before I realized how extensive the moisture was. Interestingly, after stripping the gelcoat it was obvious that the original layer of fiberglass cloth over the plywood was never attached to the wood for about 1/4 of the headliner. I guess the worker was drinking that day on the job? So far I cut out the wet plywood, then got a piece of scrap plywood from an abandoned sailboat and epoxied and screwed it in place, then removed the screws and fixed the screw holes (I had to go completely through the deck which I plan to paint anyway soon, nonskid area.) To fix like with like as you suggest, should I next wet the wood with a layer of epoxy, then lay up a layer of fiberglass cloth, followed by more resin to smooth it out and paint with marine paint? I am disenchanted with gelcoat. The original was sprayed on too thick and I think that and its age caused it to fail.

Also, what would you use for a backing plate for the traveler? The 18x18 inch pieces of wood were unattractive.

Yer on the right track. For the overhead layup, try taping plastic sheet to a table, then wet out and squeegee your layup on it. When you're ready to apply, cut the piece of plastic off the table and stick it in place. Less mess. Doesn't work great for really light lay ups like a single cloth though. Make a piece of yer own flat stock as discussed earlier for backing plates.
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Old 28-04-2013, 07:58   #671
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Re: Nauticat 52 Refit

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Originally Posted by Crayfish View Post
Yes, but they're hard to find.

I have to buy one of those bloody expensive Flexicat tools (I think I've seen one on your work bench). If you had to decide would you rather prefer a short one or a longer version (1120mm)?

Thanks mate,
Volker


Yup, the 1120/44" is what I use most. The trowels are very nice too. Look at the package deals. The "Start Pack" is actually pretty reasonable. Make sure these are tools you really need, I wouldn't buy this stuff for a single job, unless it was a huge one. They pay for themselves over the course of several jobs though.



http://www.flexicat-tools.com/en/product-start-pack.php
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Old 29-04-2013, 07:52   #672
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Re: Nauticat 52 Refit

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Interlux 202, the ultimate cleaner/degreaser for structural fiberglass prep. Wear your respirator, if you spill a little of this stuff it eats big holes in the pavement! Leads to unhappy boatyard management...
I'm getting ready to paint after scraping/sanding off 20 years of bottom paint.

I used Interlux 202 when I painted my last boat over 10 years ago and found it pretty nasty.

Is there anything else that can be used ?

I see auto-body repair people are starting to use waterborne cleaners.

Thanks,
JM.
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Old 29-04-2013, 17:01   #673
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Re: Nauticat 52 Refit

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I'm getting ready to paint after scraping/sanding off 20 years of bottom paint.

I used Interlux 202 when I painted my last boat over 10 years ago and found it pretty nasty.

Is there anything else that can be used ?

I see auto-body repair people are starting to use waterborne cleaners.

Thanks,
JM.


It's like many other things in the boating world, you can have environmentally friendly, or you can have effective. Both is hard to come by. I don't know of anything less noxious which works as well. TSP wash followed by pressure washer rinse might be the best option for a solvent free method, just use a strong TSP mix and really scrub it in, let it sit a bit, then rinse.
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Old 30-04-2013, 01:31   #674
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Re: Nauticat 52 Refit

Minaret, by your leave may I suggest the Q&A is over and you shall begin again to show us your work on your project. I'm as itchy as grinding glass inna T shirt to see what's up.
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Old 30-04-2013, 01:48   #675
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Re: Nauticat 52 Refit

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Minaret, by your leave may I suggest the Q&A is over and you shall begin again to show us your work on your project. I'm as itchy as grinding glass inna T shirt to see what's up.



Lol! I doubt it. The other day I ground for two hours before I realized I forgot to put my hood up. My forehead started bleeding under my spray sock on about hour four. Perma-itch.


I'll get some stuff together for ya tomorrow.


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