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Old 11-10-2015, 12:19   #16
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Re: NATURETECH: Foam Wood... the alternative to toxic chemicals.

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Originally Posted by first wind View Post
looked at as a whole, i think the problem is a bit deeper than fiberglass and resin.
This is a forum for sailing.... as I see it we (sailors) only can look at a little part of the whole picture. If sailors take care for their part, if horse riders or tennis players and skate boarders do their part, too... then the whole picture is changing.

But we cannot point our fingers at others... saying its up to them to take the consequences out of the global problems we have. And only because we (sailors) use little bit wind by "plastic sails" we define ourselfs as "green and eco-friendly". That self lying and self betraying.

For an individual its enough to think about how own life style (and that of our family members) can be changed which definitely is consuming too much resources in Western world (Rec.: Yes, you are right I am using a computer which does not follow the princips of sustainability).

I already have stopped more than 10 years ago to have a car (before I drove a big 6 cylinder business car as consultant). I dont travel for leasure holidays with cheap flight tickets to visit over weekend London for a concert or fly to Rome for one day for buying Italian shoes or to Baleares/Spain for making party on weekend as I shortly experienced it from my neighbour's son (a nearby grown up teenager).

I try to avoid buying toxic and gene manipulated food... and I dont buy every 2-3 months new shoes and clothes to look like a fashion victim.

My mobile phone is more than 4 years old after my old 8 years old Nokia died... and still I can do everything from emailing, sms to online banking or watching WebTV not having the latest smart phone.
And when I have a damaged desktop computer I repair it with used parts buying on ebay. As soon the Microsoft operation system is out of date, I overplay it with Linux to keep it running so I have computers being 10 years old.

One can have a living with low costs doing it smart to avoid lots of consumption. Its possible but not easy... not a perfect life, but at least the carbon foot print is reduced. Right ?

As I think to live on a boat, this is the only alternative for me to do boating. So my target for 2016. I cannot have a house plus a boat for leasure times. Luckily I have a job which I can do on board of a boat, so I can give up land based living.

Its hard to find the right balance, indeed... too long we - as human mankind - went into the wrong direction since times of industrialization. And still too many big concerns are sitting in a bigger trap than me as individual for making profit to satisfy the share holder of N.Y. stock exchange... and not stopping to damage our lifes and health (e.g. by toxic products (see latest Volkswagen scandal) and wasting huge energy ressources).

In my understanding we have to address relevant questions, in every segment of life... its very urgent.

As I have not seen since more than 30 years that politics are doing the right decisions to protect the lifes of billions of people its time for "direct citizens democracy". Not just an empty word or utopia. - Alone in Germany where I live every year 100,000 people die because of health problems caused by soot particles from diesel engines (cars + trucks) instead it would be easy to write a law that every diesel engine must have a particles filter. Thats stupidity, more its gross negligence which should be punished with imprisoning. - Am I the next to die of ?

Living together in the world of boating can teach us something positive: having respect for mother nature. I always felt that sailing should be in harmony, with the weather and wind conditions. So in consequences to find a real balance it should start from scratch, from design to boat building... till the end of the life of a boat.
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Old 11-10-2015, 12:26   #17
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Re: NATURETECH: Foam Wood... the alternative to toxic chemicals.

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Originally Posted by senormechanico View Post
The process of making this foam wood sounds a lot like making Rice Krispies cereal, and we all know what happens to that when you pour milk on it.

Sounds like that? There is closed cell foam and open cell. My guess would be this is similar to the later? Or worse?
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Old 11-10-2015, 18:55   #18
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Re: NATURETECH: Foam Wood... the alternative to toxic chemicals.

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Originally Posted by Cadence View Post

Sounds like that? There is closed cell foam and open cell. My guess would be this is similar to the later? Or worse?
Doesn't matter whether the cells are open or closed. If the material of the cell walls is hygroscopic, it's all over.

"Itís similar to the way dough rises and sets when bread is baked in an oven". and look at what happens to bread when it gets wet.

Without more information about the properties of the material, we are all just guessing.
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Old 11-10-2015, 19:22   #19
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Re: NATURETECH: Foam Wood... the alternative to toxic chemicals.

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...by 2030, experts are saying our numbers will hit the critical mass point where the earth will no longer be able to sustain us...
In 1968, "experts" predicted...

"The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate..."- The Population Bomb, Paul Erlich (sponsored by the Sierra Club)

Expert..."a man fifty miles from home with a briefcase."-Will Rogers
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Old 11-10-2015, 20:26   #20
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Re: NATURETECH: Foam Wood... the alternative to toxic chemicals.

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At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate..."- The Population Bomb, Paul Erlich (sponsored by the Sierra Club)
I always think of the death rate as 1:1.
Although strictly speaking, the current observed death rate is only about 93%, since 93% of all humans ever born are now dead

Oh, he meant "per unit of time". See what an ignorance of dimensions can do to your thinking

Crude global rate 1965 - 1970 = 13.2 per 1000 people per year
Crude global rate 1975 - 1980 = 10.7 per 1000 people per year
Crude global rate 2005 - 2010 = 8.3 per 1000 people per year

Yep, some prediction!
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Old 11-10-2015, 21:24   #21
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Re: NATURETECH: Foam Wood... the alternative to toxic chemicals.

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
I always think of the death rate as 1:1.
That would be the death ratio. Yep, always 1:1.

Quote:
Although strictly speaking, the current observed death rate is only about 93%, since 93% of all humans ever born are now dead Oh, he meant "per unit of time". See what an ignorance of dimensions can do to your thinking
That "rate" thing can mess things up if you aren't paying attention.

Quote:
Crude global rate 1965 - 1970 = 13.2 per 1000 people per year
Crude global rate 1975 - 1980 = 10.7 per 1000 people per year
Crude global rate 2005 - 2010 = 8.3 per 1000 people per year

Yep, some prediction!
Erlich thought there'd be massive starvation. Didn't foresee the massive productivity increases in agriculture and distribution efficiency, nor the improvements in preventive medical care to the Third World, apparently. Or perhaps he did and just needed an augmented payday.

A man has to make a living somehow, and if telling scary stories gets you a payday on university campuses and you have no other marketable skills...
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Old 15-10-2015, 08:55   #22
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Re: NATURETECH: Foam Wood... the alternative to toxic chemicals.

Lets see how all this green wonder crap is holding together in 40 years. My fiberglass boat is 42 years old and going strong, not even the oldest fiberglass boat in the marina, the oldest is a 50 year old Alberg 30 from 1966 that is still going strong.
Pretty hard to beat that for envirnmental claims, I see no reason barring an accident why that Alberg or my boat won't be sailing in 20 years,
I don't see something as being green if it has a shorter lifespan then ends up as landfill. Time will tell. Somebody will probably be sailing my boat after I become landfill!
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Old 15-10-2015, 16:32   #23
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Re: NATURETECH: Foam Wood... the alternative to toxic chemicals.

All this talk about a putative material where absolutely no structural specifications have been quoted...

Seems a bit premature to me, whether or not it is "green"!

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Old 16-10-2015, 10:11   #24
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Re: NATURETECH: Foam Wood... the alternative to toxic chemicals.

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
All this talk about a putative material where absolutely no structural specifications have been quoted...

Seems a bit premature to me, whether or not it is "green"!

Jim
Yep! Remember when fiberglass was iffy.
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Old 16-10-2015, 14:08   #25
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Re: NATURETECH: Foam Wood... the alternative to toxic chemicals.

[QUOTE=Cadence;1938807] Yep! Remember when fiberglass was iffy.

Fortunately, all those issues were laid to rest when they found that forest of fibreglass trees in South West Tasmania. Silenced all those old farts who said that if God had intended for boats to be built of fibreglass, ...

Jim
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