Mould

[Sonosailor]

Wife and I are starting to debate how to best deal with the mould inside the boat before moving aboard. Not a big problem in our case, but definitely there. Our case is mostly fibreglass interior, and a minimum of bilge troubles, as we have a shallow cat. Stilll, some little black buggers in the bow area, and real fuzzy stuff in and around the engine areas.

Mould is no small thing, according to the news, and the way the insurers are dealing with buildings lately. Too much of the wrong spores and you have real health problems.

Any opinions? Washing down the interior is the obvious solution, but what is in the solution? Chlorine bleach, borax, sulfite chrystals? Who has an opinion?

[GordMay]

You're on the right track (they all work)- Chlorine Bleach works well for cleaning.
If there's mold on wood; you could clean it, then soak it in Ethylene Glycol anti-freeze. There are also several Borax based products used in preserving wood.
Regards,
Gord

[CSY Man]

Heard from a friend that has lived on a boat in Panama for 20 years (The most hot and humid place on earth) that a citric solution works best:

Vinegear and water in a bucket with juice from a lemon or two.
It worked great on my boat and took a year before the mildew started re-appearing.

I keep a 110 volt, oscilatting fan running all the time in the boat with hatches cracked anb bug screens installed for good ventilation.

[s/v Breakaway]

The real issues isn't getting rid of the mold that is there, but improving ventilation to prevent reoccurrence!

[delmarrey]

keep the air moving!

moss won't grow on a rolling stone or on the windward side of an island.

[Sonosailor]

Sounds reasonable guys, but it also seems reasonable to kill it and remove the spores or whatever it is that irritates the human lung. Following that, I gotta work at ventilation.

Anybody want to apply science to the argument? What is it about the fresh, flowing air that interferes with the mold? Surely, the dampness continues? Are we primarily relying on lowering the humidity, or is a higher level of oxygen tough on mold too?

Are there washes that will leave a residue that is also tough on mold? That is why I suggested a sulphite, as it might inhibit future growth. Sulphites are used in winemaking to control unwanted biology.

[delmarrey]

There are two kinds of products that are used for bacteria, a STAT or a CIDE. The STAT is used as a control to keep growth down. A CIDE is a killer but also is harmful to all living organisms including humans. Some CIDE's are just a bleach (clorine). As for sulfhite, some people are allergic. Myself included.

Go to a professional janitoral supply and talk to them. When I use to do "fire and water damage restoration" we used a product called Milgo. We would mix it with water and spay it in the carpets and on the walls to stop mildew from growing while we dried out the house. And it's not harmful like a CIDE.

Oh yes, moving air keeps the spore's from attaching themselfs, but once attached they need to be killed or they will spring back like a dry summer grass. So, a killing is the first move, then a pre vent ative plan to follow. Also, any dirt or dust is a bed for spores. It'll hold the moisture for the spores to root. So a good cleaning is a preventative as well.
Keep the air flowing!!!!

Hope this helps................._/)

[Sonosailor]

Texas doctor says research shows mold not toxic, calls for revised guidelines
By Don Eriksson

Media coverage of a problem with severe household mold that made Pepperell resident Nancy Davis seriously ill, blacklisted her home with insurance agencies, and prompted a community-wide fund-raising effort to help her family move out has produced responses from residents of both California and Texas -- the two states with mold legislation on the books.

One of them, Dr. Robert Ellis Bonham, an otolaryngologist, detailed a financial insurance crisis that has developed in Texas concerning excessive mold remediation costs and lawsuits about mold.

He said prosecuting attorneys in Texas have "jumped" on mold lawsuits and 44,000 cases filed in 2001-2002 amounted to $1.3 billion. "The lawsuits and claims were fueled by fear, not fact, and sometimes by greed," Bonham said.

The Texas Legislature, through House Bill 329, has charged that state's Department of Health with creating a program to educate, license and regulate mold remediators to be adopted by the Board of Health next April 1.

Bonham presented results of his research that found mold is not toxic, but is an allergen that can affect persons with weak immune systems.

A practicing physician for 30 years and a former advisor to former President George H.W. Bush, Bonham said he began his research out of a concern for the problem.

"I discovered that present guidelines for diagnosis and remediation of structures with mold came from a 1993 New York City Department of Health document recommending procedures," he said. "The document was based on the false assumption that mold is toxic to humans and was patterned after asbestos guidelines.

"This false assumption has been duplicated in the documents being used today by the CDC [Center for Disease Control], EPA [Environmental Protection Agency] and OSHA [Occupational Safety & Health Administration]," he said.

"What has happened is a perpetuation of the fear factor," by, for example, toxicologists who are on the "pseudo-medical fringe" and whose data has not been verified by the American Medical Association, Bonham said.

For people like the Davises, the research Bonham and his colleagues have done indicates that their home and foundation would not have to be destroyed, that dangerous mold would not spread through the neighborhood if their roof was torn off, and that workers would have to wear protective clothing.

Bonham said hiss research debunks the "first cousin to anthrax" statement that air quality specialists often use. Mold is a result of a central moisture problem. Removing the moisture and replacing material is the cure, he said.

He approached the Texas Medical Association to request an independent review of scientific facts. In September 2001, its Council on Scientific Affairs released a report stating there is no significant evidence connecting "black mold" to human disease.

Bonham then approached former Texas Attorney General John Corynyn, who convened a meeting with apartment owners, builders, homeowners, school districts, health department, and Department of Insurance, who agreed truth should be told and remediation guidelines set up.

Bonham and his associates have since formed the Mold Education and Resource Center and Texans for Sensible Mold Policy to encourage public policy based on common sense that he hopes to spread nationally.

Some scientific facts that have been uncovered include:

* Mold is a possible allergen and not a toxic substance. Indoor dust mites, cockroaches, and animal dander are more of a problem than mold.

* Moisture control is the key ingredient to controlling unwanted mold growth.

* Medical science doesn't support the need for air/surface sampling and there are no federal or state standards for concentration of mold spores.

* Extreme containment measures are not needed. Remediation should contain and remove moldy building materials in a cost-effective, logical method. The risk of contamination by mold spores in other areas of a building during remediation is not significant.

* The requirement for extreme personal protective equipment is overstated in existing guidelines. But people allergic to mold or who have pulmonary problems are advised to decline remediation work to avoid aggravating their symptoms.

* It is important that a national policy be made with the advice of the medical profession.

Bonham is a fellow on the American Board of Otolaryngology, a staff member of RHD Memorial Medical Center (past chief of surgery, past chief of staff), Trinity Medical Center, Presbyterian Hospital in Plano, Texas, and is a member of the Executive Committee of the Texas Otolaryngology Society.

He is on the Board of Governors Legislative Committee for the American Academy of Otolaryngology and Head and Neck Surgery, and the Legislative Committee of the Dallas County Medical Society.

[Sonosailor]

Here is another good article regarding the battle.

http://www.boatus.com/goodoldboat/mildewwars.htm

The core of the article:

Fighting back
Most traditional remedies rely on sodium hypochlorite (household bleach) to remove mildew. You can add TSP (tri-sodium phosphate, available at most hardware stores) to the formula to make it more effective. A good, strong, all-around solution is four quarts of fresh water, one quart of bleach, 2/3 cup of TSP, and 1/3 cup of powdered laundry detergent. Do not use liquid detergents in combination with bleaches and TSP. Scrub the affected surfaces, using rubber gloves and eye protection. Rinse thoroughly.

[RichH]

Mold and mildew are best removed by dissolving the cells on those surfaces that are compatible with caustics. Sodium hypochlorite etc only kill the cells but leave them as a nutrient source for further contamination. Caustics will dissolve the cells thus removing them entirely. I prefer sodium silicate based (strong) detergents or as a last resort - good old fashioned 'lye' soap. Caustics can be dangerous so use them with appropriate caution, etc.

For mildew prone areas that constantly re-infect I simply spray/spritz on the sodium silicate detergent and let it dry - similar to your grandmothers technique of 'whitewashing' the cellar walls to prevent mildew formation - only the sodium silicates dry 'clear'.

If you have a large contamination of molds or mildews, never ever clean it 'dry' as you will release the spores of which some can be extremely toxic (stochybatris autra or various forms of aspergillus, etc.) to your respiratory tract depending on your (cumulative) sensitivity. Always wet-out mildew by spraying before attempting to clean it and consider wearing a NIOSH rated respirator!!!!!

[Brent Swain]

For keeping clothes and books mould free in storage , I've always stored them im plastic garbage bags with mothballs in. It only takes an hour or two in the breeze to get rid of the smell. Perhaps you could seal the boat with moth crystals for a week or so before moving aboard , foowed by a good airing out.

[Brent Swain]

For keeping clothes and books mould free in storage , I've always stored them in plastic garbage bags with mothballs in. It only takes an hour or two in the breeze to get rid of the smell. Perhaps you could seal the boat with moth crystals for a week or so before moving aboard , foowed by a good airing out.

[exposure]

What is a good brand name and source for "sodium silicate caustic" cleaners?

Thanks, Woody

[GordMay]

Sodium Silicates are available from:
Occidental Chemical Corp. ('OxyChem')
http://www.oxychem.com/
Tech Service Dept. (214) 302-4410
800-752-5151
- or -
Post Apple Scientific:
http://shop2.chemassociates.com/PAS-...esolution.html

[exposure]

I was assuming this was available in a dilute form specifically for use as a cleaner or other household/commercial use. Of course we could all chip in and by it by the ton from Occidental!

Let me see. We probably have some around the pulp mill I work at somewhere....

Woody