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Old 19-09-2008, 07:47   #31
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The thread-drift-police may nail me, but I’ve been pondering a similar question with our B24… For the moment, some sort of power is almost a requirement to get out of our slip (requires a full 360 in narrow channel to get to from our slip to the little inlet from our bay), but I don’t plan to be here forever… Plus, with the motor in the well, the prop has never come out of the water that I’m aware of – regardless of chop, so there are significant advantages to just leaving stuff alone… but, my relationship with this little motor is sort of love/hate… and, the nature of the motor well is that rascal and its paraphernalia take up an inordinate amount of space that could be used for a roomy lazarett, not to mention adding buoyancy if that hole was glassed in…
  • I’ve thought about keeping things the way they are – but would like some feedback on longer-term cruising and/or intercoastal running with a 2-cycle outboard in these days of ethanol gas, etc…
  • Or, bite the bullet and find a small 8-10hp diesel and spend a winter glassing the well, and installing a full inboard under the cockpit -- more smelliness, and then I must cuddle up to a hunk of cast-iron…
  • Or, as this thread seems to suggest, trash the whole thing altogether and get a couple of big sweeps for flat water maneuvering…
  • Or, another option is to glass in the well and do a transom mount for the outboard, but I like this least of all – ugly, ugly…
Experiences, advice, suggestion, or… ???
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Old 19-09-2008, 09:06   #32
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I'd go for electrikery drive. Using a commercial generator (fuel of choice) bolted in a convenient place and used to charge a couple of batteries for silent manouvreing and departure. Also gives you on board power for cooking, and other little luxuries and power tools. And it's portable to the repair shop and so on and so-on.
I'd be worried about any lee shore when the wind dissappears (every evening). Doesn't take a lot of power to motor away at to or three knots and does add precision manouvreing, especially if you can arrange the prop to steer. Electric outboards are getting pretty pokey and will drive your dink too.
Clip it on, use it, put it back in the locker.
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Old 19-09-2008, 11:03   #33
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I’ve read of folks successfully using that type of drive on a few boats (usually multihulls or low-speed classics ) -- but besides the fact there is little free space (24 foot on deck) for the machinery, and no appreciable savings in space over the powerhead of the outboard, and the fact I don’t have much faith in dependency on electricity (within a hundred miles of salt-water), I’ve not considered that as a viable option for this application… truth is, I think me and technogizmos are from different solar systems, and different centuries…
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Old 01-08-2009, 21:22   #34
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Going engineless? Be sure to check out Jay Fitzgerald's books and website oarclub.org. He also is interviewed on FurledSails.com. I agree with Jay. The motor is for the most part a hazard. It is a fire hazard. It is more likely to fail when most needed. It wastes so much storage space and blocks access to things that need to be maintained and monitored. Half the cost and time of maintaining a sailboat is engine related. Just get a boat that you can easily handle.And instead of spending time and money on the diesel, spend it learning how to really sail.
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Old 02-08-2009, 01:32   #35
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The motor is for the most part a hazard. It is a fire hazard. It is more likely to fail when most needed. It wastes so much storage space and blocks access to things that need to be maintained and monitored. Half the cost and time of maintaining a sailboat is engine related. Just get a boat that you can easily handle.
That would not work in European marinas where you need an engine due to the lack of space between rows of boats. It would also be a severe constraint in an area of big tides.

If you think they are likely to fail, and have been taking up 50% of your maintenance time, it is more than time for you to upgrade to a modern diesel.
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Old 02-08-2009, 09:07   #36
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Going engineless? Be sure to check out Jay Fitzgerald's books and website oarclub.org. He also is interviewed on FurledSails.com. I agree with Jay. The motor is for the most part a hazard. It is a fire hazard. It is more likely to fail when most needed. It wastes so much storage space and blocks access to things that need to be maintained and monitored. Half the cost and time of maintaining a sailboat is engine related. Just get a boat that you can easily handle.And instead of spending time and money on the diesel, spend it learning how to really sail.
Nice nostalgic thought but not real world. In most modern countries the anchorages, mooring fields and almost every marina are too constrained for someone to not have an engine on an average size cruising boat. You would be a danger/ hazard not only to yourself but to every other boat in the area. That is in average conditions, in lesser conditions you would simply be a mennis to navigation in every sense of the word and should be treated as such if you cause damage or risk of damage to others.... including the potential search and rescue people attempting to care for you if you intentionally placed yourself in those circumstances by your own choices.

Anyone can and at one time probably will have engine failure. Having the skill to safely anchor/ moor or dock a boat is always a critical sailing skill that many don't keep as well honed as they should be. These should be practiced in safe conditions frequently as would be engine repairs afloat practice. Back up contingencies are part of every competent sailors requirements for safe sailing for everyone. Sail with out an engine aboard when you wish but in most cruising boats today you should have a back up plan when the stuff hits the fan or when safe distances can not effectively be maintained when in proximity to other peoples property. Be a sailor but don't be an irresponsible one.
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Old 02-08-2009, 09:21   #37
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Although one could sail without a motor or electronics it's neither a prudent thing to do or logical. It makes things much more difficult, but you would be one hell of a sailor if you do pull it off.
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Old 02-08-2009, 12:00   #38
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Beginner question. Why aren't the 50 to 100 pound thrust trolling motors that move big pontoon boats around with ease discussed more as an option? 24 volt versus 48. 500$ versus 5000$
One, or even two of them on larger boats would seem to be a nice compromise.
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Old 02-08-2009, 13:22   #39
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We use electric trolling motors on our 19 and 26 foot boats from time to time when we can't sail on and off our moorings. Continuous operation is a drain on batteries but for just getting on and off moorings or into slips they work just fine unless you are bucking an extreme tide or river.
Battery banks are heavy and that is important for lighter sailing boats.
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Old 02-08-2009, 14:48   #40
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Boatyard is talking about a 24' boat.
My perspective is this: In his case with me not knowing the boat, it just serves to develop sailing skills which would do anyone good. Some boats can't get out of their own way without an engine essentially making them motor-sailers whether they're called that or not. As has been noted many people have sailed all over the world engine-less. The Pardee's have spent years sailing throughtout Europe - engineless.

My boat's outboard was so unreliable that sailing in and out of slips became routine. My next boat (<30' ultralight mono) will have an outboard. Long term my intention is to have a mid-30' with a diesel.
Implying that Boatyard is irresponsible for thinking of going engineless is absurd.
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Old 02-08-2009, 15:13   #41
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Implying that Boatyard is irresponsible for thinking of going engineless is absurd.
I dont think anyone is saying that. There are places where being able to sail in an out is a viable system. There are other marinas (particularly in UK) where the tide is to fast and wind too flukey for this to be feasible. That doesnt mean that you cant get into these marina, because most of them have some form of workboat available. For others, even negotiating the harbour entrance is a bit of a nightmare in an engineless boat. I have towed boats through Portsmouth harbour entrance because their engine was not powerfull enough to get the boat through against the tide!
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Old 02-08-2009, 22:13   #42
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Iron spinnaker = 2 or 3 crew

Having an iron, or electric spinnaker is just like having two or three extra crew on an engineless yacht. My first real cruise was on board the Folkboat 'Jellicle II' with sweep but without engine. The skipper had already sailed to New Zealand in his first sloop, without engine so, this was a real experience.

We would row an anchor out for tight corners. Sail out of notorious harbours or anchorages at ten minutes notice if the weather changed suspiciously. It was a great way to train the senses; develop judgment and keep clean below. Now electricity or other stored energy would be great. Two Chinese ros, or sweeps, would still be handy as they are faster and more powerful than straight sweeps; there is always the time when a line is around the screw and it is taking too long to clear. Ros work well on multihulls, too.
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