Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-11-2015, 13:14   #226
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Most boats have liners; which ones do it best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I didn't say it was better. I said it might be better for some people.

My attitude towards houses is similar to yours. I am obviously no professional concerning boat building, but I know a thing or two about building buildings. I'm not an engineer, but I have 40 architects and engineers working for me right now on one big project.

My apartment is in a 130 year old building with solid brick walls 1.2 meters thick. After 130 years, no settling, cracking, or anything, despite the adjoining building having been obliterated by a Nazi bomb in WWII. It's wonderful living behind walls like that -- they provide thermal and acoustic mass, and they breathe. But it's an irrational way to build, costing a fortune today and eating up a big part of the interior space, with those walls.

My lake house is new construction, which I built. The basement walls are reinforced concrete 40cm thick, on top of a concrete "raft" which is 75cm thick, all more than 3 meters underground. The neighbors teased me about building Hitler's bunker, when we were doing the underground part. Above that, reinforced concrete columns and floor structures, filled with Hebel blocks, then faced with a thick layer of insulation, then stone. The roof is almost 1000m2 (10,000 square feet) of solid copper sheet with standing seams. It took about three years to build and fit out -- I've built tall office building in less time than that, but it was a labor of love.

Overkill? Absolutely. But I look at buildings with a professional eye, the way you look at boats. It gives me pleasure, and I was willing to pay for that pleasure.

But would I insist that any house built a different way, a more rational way, is crap? No way!! Other people have different priorities, needs, and desires, from me.

Now rational mass production, and shoddy production, are not necessarily the same thing. I've seen the shoddy McMansions you are talking about. Residential construction in the U.S. is of generally poor quality, because our homebuilding industry is just generally poor, building to a price without any regard to quality at all. There is no comparison at all between the car industry, which produces generally better and better quality, very efficiently -- even if cars are basically disposable and definitely not designed to be kept running forever. And our homebuilding industry, which builds ever worse crap.

Some mass produced boats are crap, but not all or even most of them. The existence of a liner does not prove that a boat is crap, per se. As someone noted, even some better builders, like Island Packet and Hallberg Rassey, are starting to use partial liners. I don't like liners, and don't have one on my boat, but I think they could be not as bad, if designed carefully and well executed.

I think it's a mistake to make categorical statements about things like this.


I am, to some degree, ok with building down to a price. It's when you do that, but then try to pretend that it required no compromises and the end result is just as good, or even better, than the alternative that I get upset. People should be informed.
__________________

__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2015, 13:17   #227
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,750
Re: Most boats have liners; which ones do it best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
I am, to some degree, ok with building down to a price. It's when you do that, but then try to pretend that it required no compromises and the end result is just as good, or even better, than the alternative that I get upset. People should be informed.
I agree 100% with that

And, I acknowledge your tireless service in doing just that
__________________

__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-Ítre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2015, 15:38   #228
Registered User
 
malbert73's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Tartan 40
Posts: 1,032
Re: Most boats have liners; which ones do it best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
I am, to some degree, ok with building down to a price. It's when you do that, but then try to pretend that it required no compromises and the end result is just as good, or even better, than the alternative that I get upset. People should be informed.

Well said. Exactly that.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
malbert73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What Boats Have the Most Headroom? adell50 Monohull Sailboats 23 11-02-2015 12:01
What was the most important or most interesting ... Rakuflames General Sailing Forum 25 24-09-2012 20:52
Eliminating Boats with Liners - Advice avb3 Monohull Sailboats 57 11-02-2012 13:55
Windvanes: Which Ones and Where !? bdurham Auxiliary Equipment & Dinghy 8 25-04-2011 07:21
What Do You Miss the Most? What Do You Like the Most? sww914 Liveaboard's Forum 21 22-12-2009 10:43



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:15.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.