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Old 06-03-2014, 19:33   #1
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Morgan 36 Out Island -- Window Leak?

I'm new to this Forum, but I've owned a Morgan OI 36 for fifteen years.

This year, during rainy days, there's a nasty leak from the rubber-gasketed window in the main cabin. The leak shows at the edge of the inside of the rubber gasket, where it touches the hull liner.

Those windows were common to many Morgans.

I don't know if the source of the water is from the outside of the window, or from a toe-rail leak. I'll have to track that down.

Now my question:

. . . Assuming it _is_ from the outside of the window (probably the gasket-to-hull seal, that isn't sealing), what's the best way to fix it?

I can try to use silicone (or some other caulk), or butyl rubber (if I can find it, and get it into place). Any other ideas would be welcome.

The bottom of the window is quite close to the rubber cover of the hull-to-deck joint. Caulking in there is going to be a challenge.

. . . Ideas? Experiences?

Thanks --

. Charles
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Old 07-03-2014, 02:59   #2
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Re: Morgan 36 Out Island -- window leak?

Bump!

I bet somebody here can help you. Otherwise, show us pics. It would help to see how your "windows" are put together. Also would help to know what brand they are for research.

A.
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Old 07-03-2014, 04:12   #3
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Re: Morgan 36 Out Island -- window leak?

The window is easy to remove and you will most likely find the rubber gasket with a crack or hole. For a temporary repair if this is the case, clean the area, lightly coat the opening with silicone then re-install with leak on the bottom, repaired my leak this way and has not presented any issues in three years.
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Old 07-03-2014, 04:36   #4
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Re: Morgan 36 Out Island -- window leak?

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Charles.

I wouldn't recommend silicone for any "temporary" purpose, because almost nothing sticks to silicone (including silicone).
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Old 07-03-2014, 04:55   #5
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Re: Morgan 36 Out Island -- window leak?

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Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Charles.

I wouldn't recommend silicone for any "temporary" purpose, because almost nothing sticks to silicone (including silicone).
Ah, but everything does, the first time
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:18   #6
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Re: Morgan 36 Out Island -- Window Leak?

After pulling out the locking strip that runs in the center of the larger rubber gasket you can more easily raise the edge of the gasket and add a sealant. I use the black 3M5200 for this. Many don't like the 5200 due to it's difficult removal, but this is the very reason why it works so well. I usually wedge the ends of clothes-pin halves to lift the gasket when sealing.


There is the possibility that the leak is comming from the lining through water intrusion from above. Sealing the entrance point is essential and the portlight seal can be accomplished by removal of the entire portlight and adding an epoxy seal ....


If the gasket is damaged beyand repair; then, you can purchase the matching extrusion and locking strip from Griffith Rubber Mills in Portland, Oregon. The difference in the Griffith Mills extrusion is that the 3" radius turn at the ends of the portlights will not be molded into the piece. The extrusion fits well, but the locking strip will need to be omitted from the radius of the turn. I replaced all of my portlights in this manner. The locking strip from Griffith Mills is black and not the original white from Morgan as seen in the following....


I have also placed a covering of G-flex epoxy under the Black rub rail to seal the potential leaks at the hull-deck joint. Good luck & skill!
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:49   #7
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Re: Morgan 36 Out Island -- Window Leak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptForce View Post
After pulling out the locking strip that runs in the center of the larger rubber gasket you can more easily raise the edge of the gasket and add a sealant. I use the black 3M5200 for this. Many don't like the 5200 due to it's difficult removal, but this is the very reason why it works so well. I usually wedge the ends of clothes-pin halves to lift the gasket when sealing.


There is the possibility that the leak is comming from the lining through water intrusion from above. Sealing the entrance point is essential and the portlight seal can be accomplished by removal of the entire portlight and adding an epoxy seal ....


If the gasket is damaged beyand repair; then, you can purchase the matching extrusion and locking strip from Griffith Rubber Mills in Portland, Oregon. The difference in the Griffith Mills extrusion is that the 3" radius turn at the ends of the portlights will not be molded into the piece. The extrusion fits well, but the locking strip will need to be omitted from the radius of the turn. I replaced all of my portlights in this manner. The locking strip from Griffith Mills is black and not the original white from Morgan as seen in the following....


I have also placed a covering of G-flex epoxy under the Black rub rail to seal the potential leaks at the hull-deck joint. Good luck & skill!
HAY!!!

When were you guys on my boat???
(identical hull/boot/canvas theme)

Capn' F got the fix for sure... Need to replace my own gaskets... Not for leaks, but tired of cleaning up the bleeeeeeeping black streaks that get on the hull from the aged gaskets...

How much for a new gasket Capn'F?
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:24   #8
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Re: Morgan 36 Out Island -- Window Leak?

I don't recall the actual price of the 1" to 1/4" H-gasket from Griffith Rubber Mills, but I do recall that the minumum purchse extrusion length was enough for my whole vessel with some to spare. Another route is to change the whole portlight plan. Many have changed to a polycarbonate plate over the entire portlight opening as seen on this Morgan OI 36:




Also, back to the OP's question about dealing with the small gap while trying to seal the base of the portlight gasket next to the rub rail; my solution to this was to simply run a bead of the black 5200 in the gap. You can see in my photos that the gap is filled. I did not think that it caused a significant problem with appearance.

In addition, the photo of the 36' above shows an altered ru rail. I was told that this is a Hunter rub rail.
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:36   #9
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Re: Morgan 36 Out Island -- Window Leak?

Fair enough... I'm a bit younger than you, and I can't remember crap either!!!

You are however.... The KING of posting pictures!!!

(PS: Flem was looking for an example of our wire furlers)
Aloha, Y'all
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Old 07-03-2014, 18:49   #10
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Re: Morgan 36 Out Island -- Window Leak?

Thank you all -- especially Captain Force !

I ran some water over the window -- it leaks! So I know what needs fixing. [I'll leave potential toe-rail problems for another day.]

The magic words were " 1"-to-1/4" H-gasket ". Suddenly, I was clear about how that gasket is shaped, and how everything hangs together.

I will be burning incense and reciting prayers as I disassemble the 40-year-old rubber. The boat has just gone up for sale, and I don't want to open too many cans of worms.

Thanks again (and I'll report back on success or failure) --

. Charles
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:08   #11
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Re: Morgan 36 Out Island -- Window Leak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcohen View Post
Thank you all -- especially Captain Force !

I ran some water over the window -- it leaks! So I know what needs fixing. [I'll leave potential toe-rail problems for another day.]

The magic words were " 1"-to-1/4" H-gasket ". Suddenly, I was clear about how that gasket is shaped, and how everything hangs together.

I will be burning incense and reciting prayers as I disassemble the 40-year-old rubber. The boat has just gone up for sale, and I don't want to open too many cans of worms.

Thanks again (and I'll report back on success or failure) --

Charles
Good luck and please do report back...

Us sailors turn into a bunch of bon bon popping women... fixated on the soap opera conclusion.... We feel so emotionally void without closure...
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Old 30-09-2014, 22:48   #12
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Re: Morgan 36 Out Island -- Window Leak?

I'm I bit late to this discussion, but we had a similar problem with our M28OI...yes, the portlights do seep a bit, and thinking this was the source, I was hot on the trail for a solution. However it turned out that the primary source of leaks was the U-shaped rubrail or more correctly, the hull-to-deck joint UNDER it! Charlie used some hard-as-rock epoxy-type of glue and 1/4" self-tapping screws to hold everything together. Over the years with many bumps against immovable objects, the joint developed many cracks in this joint. The rubrail itself is not the seal! We cut/hacked/chopped all the old junk out and shot 3M5200 into the joint all the way around so the outward-facing flange was completely coated inside & out (yeah...we had to remove the inside lining as well), then replaced the screws. Now with new rail mounted, we're quite dry, and I don't mind the occasional drips around the portlights.
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Old 30-09-2014, 23:20   #13
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Re: Morgan 36 Out Island -- Window Leak?

That's a huge pile of work! Especially removing the inner liner, to get at the joint (which I'd have to do on the OI 36).

In my case, re-bedding the big portlights has been enough -- the boat is staying dry inside. Miracles _do_ happen!

. Charles

PS -- the lesson is the same, for both our fixes:

. . . Nothing lasts forever.
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Old 01-10-2014, 07:43   #14
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Re: Morgan 36 Out Island -- Window Leak?

My first action in sealing the hull-deck joint under the rub rail was to mark the rubber strip at intervals in order to be able to replace it accurately with the stretch of the rail laying in the heat...





I arranged a means to catch all the debris when removing the old epoxy coating over the joint and then replaced the seal with G-flex epoxy.





(edit: This photo is without the new epoxy layer. I thought this was a later stage of work from my thumbnail photo.)

My final reattachment of the rail was completed with black 3M5200. While waiting for the rail adhesion to set, I supported the position of the rail with vertical strips of tape pressed from the toe rail down to the freeboard.

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Old 01-10-2014, 07:44   #15
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Re: Morgan 36 Out Island -- Window Leak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcohen View Post
That's a huge pile of work! Especially removing the inner liner, to get at the joint (which I'd have to do on the OI 36).

In my case, re-bedding the big portlights has been enough -- the boat is staying dry inside. Miracles _do_ happen!

. Charles

PS -- the lesson is the same, for both our fixes:

. . . Nothing lasts forever.
Bravo Charles!!!
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