Mizzen Mast?... Bring on the riggers

[Daddy's Dream]

I had a 37' 1980 Island Trader catch my attention. Price seems decent, (I think). But it is missing the mizzen mast. mizzen boom, sail and all associated hardwear, cables, ect. I think the ONLY parts of the mizzen left on this boat are the chain plates and they may not be serviceable.

I found prices on used sails, but I haven't found prices on mast or booms at all or even any idea on where to get them at.

Does anyone have a guess-ta-mate on what it would take to put the mizzen back on this boat? Nothing I'll hold you too. I just need a ballpark so I can figure out if this thing is worth looking at.

Hopefully riggers will have a book telling what came from the factory with this boat. Without anything being there to go by and various Island Traders being set up differently, I have no idea on what it really needs.

But I did find these pages on an IT 36', I hope they were the same as the 37'.
This page has the specs on the mast and boom.
Island Trader Pages -- Spars

And this page having the specs on the rigging.
Island Trader Pages -- Standing Rigging

If I purchase this I would be interested in having the rigger install the mizzen.

Thanks in advance.

[GordMay]

There's lots of resources, including:

Dwyer Aluminum Mast Company
2 Commerce Dr., N. Branford, CT 06471, USA
Phone: (203) 484-0419
Fax: (203) 484-2014
E-Mail: sail@dwyermast.com
Web: Dwyer Aluminum Mast Company- Manufacturers of Quality Sailboat Masts, Booms, Hardware and Rigging Since 1963.

Hall Spars & Spar Fabricators
17 Peckham Drive, Bristol, RI 02809 USA
Tel: (401) 253-4858
Fax: (401) 253-2552
E-mail: info@hallspars.com
Web: Hall Spars & Rigging

Rig-Rite, Inc.
63 Centerville Road, Warwick, RI 02886 USA
Phone: 401-739-1140
FAX: 401-739-1149
Web: Rig-Rite Inc. - Masts, Booms, Spars, Rigging, and Hardware for Sailboats.
Specifically: Rig-Rite Masts Page

Selden Mast Inc.
4668 Franchise St. N. Charleston, SC 29418
Tel: (843) 760-6278
Fax: (843)760-1220
E-mail: info@seldenus.com
Web: Seldén Mast AB

[Jerry]

Good morning,
I currently own an Island Trader 37 (83). She is berthed in Deltaville, VA. I may have to sell her due to a divorce settlement. Stay in touch.

[Capt Hook]

If the price is good and the boat looks "right" you might consider not fitting a mizzen at all. For us a mizzen is a mixed blessing. We raise our mizzen for stability when motoring. Under full sail it's taken down above 20knots to reduce weatherhelm. The mizzen mast is great to mount the wind genny out of the way but then we've got a pole from the base of the mizzen mast through the middle of the aft cabin so we can't have a double berth. I've experimented with the mizzen in different conditions and as far as performance is concerned it doesn't make a great deal of difference whether it's up or down. I'd be interested to hear others views. Maybe it's just our boat or maybe I don't set it right.

[irwinsailor]

I think it will cost more than you think. If you do it with new stuff I think it will eat a big hole in $10,000. likely more. If you can find a used mast and cut it down and do the work yourself I would think you could get by for around $2000. this would not include chain plates.

[Daddy's Dream]

Hey Jerry,
E-mail me, I work in the Fathers Rights movement and I might be able to help. Even if you don't have kids I still know a lot about divorce after doing this for 25 hrs.

bill_henry@verizon.net

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Daddy's Dream

I still know a lot about divorce after doing this for 25 hrs.

Wow Bill - a whole day's experience!
Note: The standard QWERTY keyboard has the "Y" above & slightly left of the "H"

[Daddy's Dream]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Wow Bill - a whole day's experience!
Note: The standard QUERTY keyboard has the "Y" above & slightly left of the "H"

That's ok Bill, you'd think that QWERTY would be one word, even an uneducated lunk like I could spell (well, at leat type).

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha,
I used to have a Mariner ketch and it would perform very well on a beam reach with all sails flying including a mizzen staysail. The mizzen staysail can only be used with your mizzen mast intact. The mizzen staysail hoists to the top of the mizzen mast, is tacked to a padeye to windward of the mast or on the centerline and is sheeted at the end of your mizzen boom.
When my boat was sailing with the wind, i. e. running I would bring down the mizzen sail. Close reach and close hauled I'd have the mizzen sail up and sheet the boom all the way into the centerline. In 20k winds I'd reef the main and use the working jib to keep the boat on its feet. In above 20k I'd drop the main, reef the mizzen and use the working jib. It worked pretty well for me.
I also had a friend with a Cal 2-46 who just removed his mizzen altogether and never used it again. He thought it was too much trouble and once removed it certainly made a nice backyard for fishing and sunning. Of course, the boat didn't perform as a sailboat as well. It was a great motorsailor.
JohnL

[SkiprJohn]

Captain Hook,

You stated, "Under full sail it's taken down above 20knots to reduce weatherhelm." referring to the mizzen. If you are on a close reach or beam to broad reach you might want to just ease your sheets and tuck a reef in your main to reduce weather helm.

Its just a suggestion if you haven't tried it.

Regards, JohnL

[Capt Hook]

Thanks John I'll give it a try. Must admit I don't think I've tried a reef in the main with the mizzen still up. I've always felt that the mizzen would have the greater effect with it having a longer moment arm on the hull. Weather helm has always been a problem and our genoa is only around 100% so I'm fitting a bigger one this spring. Also fitting an extra forestay up to the inner shrouds so we can carry a touch more up front as a cutter but more importantly a storm sail.
Chris

[Geoff S.]

I can't claim to be an old hand with a ketch rig, but I hope to be someday. My entire experience to date is three trying weeks limping from Tortola to Trinidad in 2002, on a dilapidated boat with undersized stays'l, frayed mizzen and bellied-out main. I can say that our experiments with what we had gave me some respect for the mizzen's shifting of the center of effort back on everything from a broad reach through a beam reach to a fair bit abaft the beam. "Jib n' jigger" was a nice ride, once you tweaked the jibsheets. Given my jib was undersized, it probably acted like a standard-sized working jib with a reef in it.

Daddy, what I'd be curious about if I were you, is exactly why the mizzen rig is missing...some pretty serious ju-ju happened, I've got to think. And thus, I wonder what stresses those mizzen chains have endured; first thing to have a surveyor look at, I'd say.

John, wish I had the coin to fly out to your beautiful state and take ketch lessons from you. I'm intrigued by the mizzen stays'l concept. Do you have any photos of your boat flying it?

Wups, just noticed that you used to have the Mariner... might be too late for those ketch lessons!

[Daddy's Dream]

Originally Posted by Geoff S.

Daddy, what I'd be curious about if I were you, is exactly why the mizzen rig is missing...some pretty serious ju-ju happened, I've got to think. And thus, I wonder what stresses those mizzen chains have endured; first thing to have a surveyor look at, I'd say.

That should have been one of my first questions. I'll send out an email tomorrow to find out. I have noticed several IT's for sale missing the mizzen mast. It does make me wonder if:
1) There could be a problem with the chain plate design. Or
2) People just remove the mizzens because they are head bangers. Or
3) Possibly the cables are undersized from the factory. Or
4) It could be that all the standing ringing is old and all of it needs replaced, (on both masts).

I could play the "what if" game all day and still not get it right. I need to find someone that knows a lot more than I do about the IT's.

Originally Posted by Geoff S.

John, ...... I'm intrigued by the mizzen stays'l concept. Do you have any photos of your boat flying it?

I'd love to see those pics as well.

[Alan Wheeler]

Firstly to qualify all my comments I am about to deploy, I am still somewhat closer to the beginning of the big learning curve of Sail control, so take this with a pinch of salt.
I have found the Mizzen does make some amount of help to the overall power of the vessel. Try flying just the mizzen one day and see how much the vessel still gets pulled along. We went with a Ketch rig because my early thinking was that the smaller sail plan woudl be easier for us novices to handle. That has proved correct so far. I hoist my mizzen and leave it sheeted in to the centre line, leaving it to self tack and fend for its'elf. If broad reaching, I will ease out the sheet, but still leave it to self tack.

[Geoff S.]

G'day Wheels! She's a beaut. Who designed the Hartley Tahitian? Your pilothouse and coachroofs are almost identical to mine, a Cuttyhunk (Allan Pape).

Daddy, I'd be skeptical of a trend of IT owners deciding to just do away with the mizzen for the sake of deck-clearing. I'm no naval architect, but it seems like the main mast would just be too far forward to make a decent sloop rig.