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Old 06-07-2006, 16:31   #1
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Metal Boat Owners - A Query on Moisture Control

Morning all,

For those of you with metal boats, I was hoping you might be kind enough to offer some advice/opinions on the following.

Ive got a 42ft Alloy keeler that Im refitting the interior on. Currently, Im stripping the interior right back to the bare hull so that i can sandblast all the manky, flaking paint off and repaint (probably with Nyalic www.nyalic.co.nz). The next step will be putting some kind of barrier on the hull to reduce the build up of condensation. I dont really need or want proper insulation as this generally needs to be covered with a lining, and the temperatures here dont generally warrant the need for it, however the condensation that builds up really needs to be controlled.

Therefore, I'm thinking about lining the hull and cabin (between frames) with a marine type of carpet. Im not sure of the name of the specific product, but its a thin (5mm of so) grey, felt looking product with a rubberised backing often used as matting on boats. My thinking was that this would greatly reduce the condensation build up, offer a small amount of insulation, and provide a sufficiantly attractive finish with wouldnt require an additional covering.

My question is....
Do you think this would work and can you see any failings with this idea?

Cost is also a consideration, and as the carpet idea wouldnt require professional application (unlike spary of foam) it looks to be about half the cost, plus it wont need a lining over it.

Thanks in advance
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Old 06-07-2006, 20:17   #2
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Go to this website and search for sandblasting and insulation. This site is a cornucopia of knowledge for metal boats.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/
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Old 07-07-2006, 02:16   #3
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Iíve never owned a metal boat.
Generally speaking, a small amount of insulation without a vapour barrier, is the worst thing you could do in promoting condensation.
If you cannot (or will not) provide both a good thermal & vapour barrier, then leave the hull bare and provide good ventilation.
Perhaps one of our Architect members could discuss envelope design.
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Old 07-07-2006, 18:35   #4
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Go here and read this. I think you would be making a big mistake by not insulating a metal boat. Condensation is caused by 2 things, not enough insulation and not enough ventilation. You can ventilate a boat well enough so that insulation is not required, but not efficiently or comfortably...

http://www.setsail.com/dashew/hull_insulation.html

hth
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Old 07-07-2006, 19:19   #5
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Firstly to be clear, are you spraying all the interior hull with Nyalic?? (Great stuff by the way)then the carpet (It's called Autex) material going over top of the Nyalic???
Is the Autex going above waterline?
Where the condensation tends to form, is below waterline. And yes, the Autex works well as a low level insulation. You don't want to rely on it if you are heading to icy waters, but general temperatures is fine. Because you have created a barrier between inside and hull temp, condensation dosen't tend to form, providing you have adiquate ventillation inside.
Do not insulate below water line. You do not want Autex below the floor. If it gets wet down there, it becomes a mess with mold. Plus if water is in the bilge and you heel over, you don't want the Autex gettingt water sloshed up on it.
The easiest way to apply Autex is with contact in a spray can. Infact, Supercheap Auto has a good cheap contact in a can and it works well in this application. You don't need a thick layer and applying F2 with a brush ends up being too thick. Don't use to much glue, it takes very little to hold it inplace, but you may want to remove it in the future and replace it. It is easy to remove if you haven't used to much glue and the clean up is not to hard. But use too much glue and you wish you never startign pulling the old stuff off.
Applying the autex is simple as well. It's easy to work with. I cut in place with a sharp stanley blade and scissors. Make sure you keep the blade sharp and use a straight edge to cut along. Scrib the carpet into corners and edges with a blunt slotted screw driver and then place the straight edge into the corner and scribe along with a blade.
Good luck
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Old 08-07-2006, 12:20   #6
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That ceramic insulating paint available in powder form in new Zealand should do the trick.
Brent Swain
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Old 08-07-2006, 14:38   #7
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A few years ago when we were fitting out our big steel boat at Tweed Heads by the Gold Coast, I had quite a few conversations with a local fitter that did regular work on the fleet of trawlers that we were moored amongst. I used a lot of his tips to great benefit. He used carpet to insulate, sometimes stuff he would find at the tip/dump. As long as it didn't smell real bad. Keeping in mind that this is not arctic climate here but still it did work and I personaly find any trick that saves a buck and works a treat is a victory in a game where victorys are rare!

Contact glue and above the water line only. Our source of condensation was upper top sides and deck. We always ventilated the boat best possible, again, mild climate.

cheers
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Old 09-07-2006, 19:08   #8
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Thanks everyone for your feedback on this, especially the links. I think the Metalboatsociety could be a good source of further opinion, and I think I'll use them as the litmus test on this one.
As I'm becoming to learn when dealing with Alloy, there never seems to be one 100% unanimously right idea.
Wheels, you're bang-on regarding my plans and many thanks for the tips. The plan is to put "Autex" on all metal surfaces (underside of cabin, deck and hull) down to approx 30cm above the waterline and keep the bilges completely free and clean. Im not too worried about 'sweat' forming or water accumulating in or around the bilge as it gets wet down there from time to time anyway and its easily dealt with.
Bob N thanks for your experience and info from experienced pro's, it confirms my idea. I just wish I could find someone similar who's 20 degrees further south to see if it still works in a colder climate!

Thanks again!
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Old 22-07-2006, 13:09   #9
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Insulation

I once had a cement boat which was uninsulated. Most of the condensation was below the waterline, not above . It can make anything you put in lockers soggy.You need insulation to the floorboatrds and insulating ceramic paint in the bilges .
I have lived aboard a steel boat in British Columbia year round for most of the last 35 years
Brent
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Old 22-07-2006, 14:38   #10
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Louis, It's obviouse you have FC experiance from your ownership, and I am NOT knocking you here. It's just that I have found almost the exact opposite in all my FC experiances to what you seemed to have experianced in all yours, on many different fronts.

After my post above in regards to condensation, someone else posted a reply almost opposite to me. And it got me thinking. I guess where condensation forms will have a lot to do with temperatures in both water and air, relitive humidity and so on. Maybe we down here in NZ experiance different results inside boat hulls to others elswhere in the world.
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Old 19-11-2010, 07:28   #11
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moisture and metal

Metal vessels present many problems to the owner or builder:

Spayed on foam insulation is best, with stringers the next problem. If screwing wood to stringers must try use undersized screws with rubber
or non cold conductive goop on threads, otherwise in colder climates when entering cabin space screws will sweat. Wood posting is best but tricky and time consuming.

When travelling widows usually sweat big time, a simple auto type heater blower will solve that problem. Some boaters use engine jacket heat and
6 cm, flex tubes with simple auto blower. I built an Aluminum fishing boat
mid 70's and it worked perfectly. Also a dryer space where wet gear can dry isolated somewhat from main cabin. We used shower-head space with vent to outside.

A dry interior is a happy interior.
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Old 19-11-2010, 14:17   #12
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I have a bare metal boat and try to keep it where the outside temperature is between 72 and 80 degrees F, that way the windows and doors can stay open. If it gets too cold or hot, move the boat.
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Old 19-11-2010, 14:51   #13
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I'm slow at reading between the lines.....aaach !

While reading I see NZ as your whereabouts.

All-black country.....You just need some air conditioners, small ones.


As an aside saw vessel exiting False Creek ground here, nice 55-65 footer

Name was....SHE GOT THE HOUSE....have a good day mate !
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Old 19-11-2010, 15:01   #14
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I don't own a metal boat, I do believe however that insulation installed below the water line should be fine if done properly. There can be no condensation if there is no moisture. There will be no moisture between the hull and teh inside barrier if the hull area is coated with a moisture impervious insulation such as those available in spray foam. One needs to research which material is best for his/her application.

Foggy
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Old 19-11-2010, 15:20   #15
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Not to dismiss any of the good advice you may receive here but I would also check in with the experts at metalboatsociety.org
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