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Old 29-11-2015, 08:59   #46
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

Quote:
Originally Posted by autumnbreeze27 View Post
Here's an update, for those of you keeping score.

Merriman winch 16, me 0

I had the original pawl repaired, but it doesn't work either.

So I drilled a hole behind it, so I could rig something to pull it away to disengage, but that didn't work.

As it stands I'm going to try different length pendants to lock it off and just run the winch without the pawl.

Or I might try putting a bounty on it on the morning net, but typically if I can't figure something out with the help of the internet, it's FUBAR.


Thanks all for the help!
Would a remote control ATV type winch be a solution-with SS cable of course?
ATV Winches | eBay

/ Len
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Old 29-11-2015, 11:58   #47
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

I'm probably the least mechanical of any on here but just a question: What does the spring bend ride on? In your picture with the pawl on its pivot and the gear, the spring looks to be floating in air, i.e. not touching anything. So I would assume there is something that it touches when the unit is totally assembled. If there was something that moved that spring out, i.e. take the tension off, then the pawl could (not necessarily would) come out of engagement. Of something might actively disengage the spring/pawl. Something that is in the winch case or another moving part that you don't show a picture of. Otherwise, I don't see a way at all to disengage the pawl. But I am probably missing something.
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Old 29-11-2015, 12:51   #48
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbunyard View Post
With the cover on and the pawl not installed, how much endplay is there
between the drum and housing? If there is any, have you tried to center the drum in the housing so there's no endplay? You could use any material
to make washers of varying thickness for testing (plastic cups or even paper come to mind), and get the right thickness of metal shim stock if it works.

My guess is that when going up, the pawl rides over the gear as designed, but when going down, the pawl is contacting the drum, preventing the pawl from being kicked up by the spring (or by whatever obscure mechanism is at play).

Does lubrication make any difference?

Also, can't tell from the picture of the cover, but I've seen cases where there's a single ball bearing that sits in a dimple in the end of a shaft for thrust and positioning purposes. They are easily lost (ask me how I know), but you can tell if there's supposed to be one there by cleaning the bore in the cover and seeing if there's a corresponding ball seat in the cover.



I've mentioned these alignment issues with the OP, I believe this is some of the issue, the end bushing is very worn to one side, as well the old prawl has been severely worn on one side due to rubbing on the misaligned gear set.
Trudge on.


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Old 29-11-2015, 14:24   #49
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

The spring rides against the side of the winch case. When you turn the winch the pawl backs off the gear and puts the spring under tension against the side of the case, and then it drops over the next tooth.

As for the hole, I cleaned out the other side and it's rounded, so there definatly could have been a ball bearing in there. I'm trying to figure out where I can find a ball bearing on the boat I can steal to see if it makes a difference, but I've looked at the stupid thing when it's assembled and I don't see how the drum being slightly off would make a difference. If you can explain the problem to me differently maybe I could get it.

Trying to figure out how to jury rig it at this point. My lanyard idea didn't work. I'm wondering if I replaced the dyneema with polyester line if I could use a clam cleat.
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Old 29-11-2015, 19:44   #50
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

It's kinda hard sometimes to get an idea across with just words so attached are a couple of sketches that might do a better job. The spring is not shown for clarity.

The sketch to the left below tries to illustrate what I was talking about this morning (and what I still think might be the problem). In this picture it clearly shows that the pawl is riding on the top edge of the pawl gear, as if gradual wear has allowed the drum to settle in the housing. What I meant this morning about centering the drum is to try and get the pawl to ride in the middle of the pawl gear teeth, by raising the drum up with a shimming washer.



In the sketch below to the right, I've tried to show what I think Boatyarddog is talking about, in a somewhat exaggerated manner. This could also be a contributing factor, but because in your other pictures I don't see any evidence of the drum scraping on the housing, I think there is less chance of this being the primary problem. If it is, a reasonably proficient machinist can center bore the cover and fabricate a bushing to fit.

Regarding single balls, once you figure out the right size, La Paz is a pretty big town, most bearing houses have individual balls in a multitude of sizes. Or you can bust one out of a ball bearing with a cold chisel or cut one out with a 4 inch grinder and a thin cutting disc....

And finally, I too am curious about the current shape and configuration of the spring. It seems that somebody else has been in there before you, so it's pretty hard to have much faith in it at this point.

Hope you can make out the sketch and understand what I'm speculating about. Let me know if you need better clarification.
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Old 29-11-2015, 21:44   #51
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

Look at the bright side you have a great new Taco cart to explore almost daily there in La Paz....ask Tom on SV Eagle over at La Paz Cruisers Supply in Marina Palmira for my/his master Taco cart list! You may just never want to leave after the Estadios shrimp tacos!
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Old 30-11-2015, 03:05   #52
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

I agree with JimBunyards sketch. You will probably have to take the slop out of drum bushings,etc.
Here is a drawing of my earlier idea on the spring operation.
Question: before winch broke,what was the proceedure for lowering the CB.
I am guessing that you put a small bit of CW turn (raising) in order to disengage the pawl. Then,did you just let it free fall?
or did you have to hold back on the crank as it tried to free fall?
or did you have to ratchet it down by repeated small CW turn & release?

Hope pic is legible-I can do a PDF if not.

My idea is that the spring pivots against the inner housing as it's outer tip rides the peaks & valleys of pawl gear. In addition,I think it may "buckle backward" in the lowering operation,thereby lifting the pawl completely clear of the gear.

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Old 30-11-2015, 03:12   #53
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

I got confused with various pics in different posts so I put them altogether.Click image for larger version

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Old 30-11-2015, 08:29   #54
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

Heading in to town for one last try at parts and getting some kind of substitute winch (hopefully a 12v atv style).

Tom has been a great resource for just about everything--a great guy! We went to dinner with him and Jeannie the other night at McFisher, and hang out with him occasionally at Tail Hunters when he's watching a game (they have the best tacos gobernador)

I'll try to find some ball bearings today. As for the pawl/spring, I get what you're saying, and I thought of that myself, but that would be such a radically different bend then what was on it when I removed it--I did try bending it that way but it bounded up really bad so I stopped (afraid I'd break the spring bending it too much)
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Old 30-11-2015, 11:25   #55
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

When all is said and done on this, if it were me I would bite the bullet and put in a new winch that will work for the purpose. A standard manual sheet winch would not work since it does not have a "reverse" which would lower the centerboard. An electric one or a manual with reversing capability would work. plus it would have to be a cable type which can hold more line/cable since you would not be tailing it. I am sure this wouldn't be cheap nor easy to source in LP but who knows. I would always have a question mark in my mind as to whether my cobbled up winch would work every time I needed it. Sounds like you are considering this.

Side note: we had a winch gear made in PV years ago. The machine shop was so clean you could have eaten off the floor. The gear, for our mainsail uphaul cable winch, was beautifully made out of SS and worked great.

Good luck with it. La Paz is our favorite place in MX and it is relatively easy to get US parts down there (compared to other places in MX).
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Old 30-11-2015, 13:29   #56
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbunyard View Post
It's kinda hard sometimes to get an idea across with just words so attached are a couple of sketches that might do a better job. The spring is not shown for clarity.

The sketch to the left below tries to illustrate what I was talking about this morning (and what I still think might be the problem). In this picture it clearly shows that the pawl is riding on the top edge of the pawl gear, as if gradual wear has allowed the drum to settle in the housing. What I meant this morning about centering the drum is to try and get the pawl to ride in the middle of the pawl gear teeth, by raising the drum up with a shimming washer.



In the sketch below to the right, I've tried to show what I think Boatyarddog is talking about, in a somewhat exaggerated manner. This could also be a contributing factor, but because in your other pictures I don't see any evidence of the drum scraping on the housing, I think there is less chance of this being the primary problem. If it is, a reasonably proficient machinist can center bore the cover and fabricate a bushing to fit.

Regarding single balls, once you figure out the right size, La Paz is a pretty big town, most bearing houses have individual balls in a multitude of sizes. Or you can bust one out of a ball bearing with a cold chisel or cut one out with a 4 inch grinder and a thin cutting disc....

And finally, I too am curious about the current shape and configuration of the spring. It seems that somebody else has been in there before you, so it's pretty hard to have much faith in it at this point.

Hope you can make out the sketch and understand what I'm speculating about. Let me know if you need better clarification.

Dang, best explanation on here.
It has wear, but it's not worn out yet.
Could be fixed.

Wouldn't blame the OP for not continuing, its probably easier, time involved.
Stay there in LaPaz long enough, you'll become an expat.😎


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Old 30-11-2015, 18:03   #57
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

It works!!!

This baby cost the same as the damn stainless steel pawl.

I might add a block below it because it's pulling forward a bit.

If you know anybody looking for an old merriman winch (non-functional with $100 stainless steel pawl upgrade) let me know, will deliver to anywhere near the water in Mexico.

We're hoping to get out of the slip tomorrow... these damn Norte winds are relentless... but we think we can get in the lee of espiritu santo and be protected... we'll see... wish us luck!
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Old 30-11-2015, 19:21   #58
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

Quote:
Originally Posted by autumnbreeze27 View Post
It works!!!

This baby cost the same as the damn stainless steel pawl.

I might add a block below it because it's pulling forward a bit.

If you know anybody looking for an old merriman winch (non-functional with $100 stainless steel pawl upgrade) let me know, will deliver to anywhere near the water in Mexico.

We're hoping to get out of the slip tomorrow... these damn Norte winds are relentless... but we think we can get in the lee of espiritu santo and be protected... we'll see... wish us luck!
Now that's a winch! Should it have SS cable or is that some form of dyneema?

Good luck in future travels
/ Len
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Old 30-11-2015, 21:20   #59
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

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Originally Posted by deblen View Post
Now that's a winch! Should it have SS cable or is that some form of dyneema?

Good luck in future travels
/ Len
It came with SS, looks like maybe 1/4", but yeah we had 3/16" dyneema already on the centerboard, got it off amazon before we left. It was 50' of 3/16" dyneema rated for $30 on Amazon, and I still have half of it left over. I made a soft shackle out of some of it already, it's rated at 4280lbs. The centerboard is around 800-900lbs.
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