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Old 24-11-2015, 09:57   #16
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

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Originally Posted by autumnbreeze27 View Post
Attached is the pic. I'm approaching nascar efficiency at taking this thing apart and putting it back together.

I tried grinding those groves in, it didn't make a difference.

I've tried the spring with less bend, but started experimenting a few hundred assemblies ago.
Looking at this pic:

Something has to raise the pawl tip up out of the drum gear teeth when extra hand twist is applied to cranking square in a CCW direction. ie: the drum gear is being forced CW.

If the left (hooked) tip of the leaf spring was engaged in the valley between 2 teeth of the large gear while the pawl was sitting "loosley" in a tooth valley: horizontal pressure toward the right on the tip of the leaf spring may make the leaf buckle upwards, thereby lifting the pawl out of the teeth & allowing the drum gear to rotate freely in a CW direction??

Just a brain fart-no idea if it is supposed to work this way.

Cheers/ Len
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Old 24-11-2015, 10:01   #17
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

I got yelled at by the admiral for leaving winch parts and tools all over the galley, so I'm back at it this morning.

I was getting ready to try a fo-leather washer to increase friction but decided to try reversing the pawl again, because it does look like from the teeth it should be on the opposite side of how I've been putting it in. It seems to fit better than way as well, but getting it in was more of a PITA, but it finally dropped in to place while landing on the end of my middle finger... I'll probably lose that nail.

Nothing like working on your boat with injured hands I tell you.

I'm going to try and print the photo I have of the old setup to scale and bend the spring to exactly match it and see if that gets me anywhere.
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Old 24-11-2015, 10:12   #18
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

Merriman Winches
This company might have a few ideas.
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Old 24-11-2015, 10:18   #19
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

I'm going to take a wild guess here but there may be too little friction on the pall. What I'm seeing is when cranking to raise the spring keeps the pall engaged(clicking) When reversing the friction of the pinion gear raises the pall out of the teeth on the drum so the drum can turn the opposite direction.
Question: when going to lower, do you have to first turn in the raise direction before lowering? if so this would release the locking of the pall against the drum teeth so when reversing allow the friction to lift the pall clear of the drum teeth as long as it's turning.
I can't think of anything else that would lift the pall away without a mechanical lever of some sort.
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Old 24-11-2015, 10:28   #20
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

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I'm going to take a wild guess here but there may be too little friction on the pall. What I'm seeing is when cranking to raise the spring keeps the pall engaged(clicking) When reversing the friction of the pinion gear raises the pall out of the teeth on the drum so the drum can turn the opposite direction.
Question: when going to lower, do you have to first turn in the raise direction before lowering? if so this would release the locking of the pall against the drum teeth so when reversing allow the friction to lift the pall clear of the drum teeth as long as it's turning.
I can't think of anything else that would lift the pall away without a mechanical lever of some sort.
One more thought (for what it" worth) was/is there a wavy spring washer on the shaft of the pinion gear between the pall and gear? This would act as a crude clutch to provide extra needed friction to lift the pall.
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Old 24-11-2015, 10:36   #21
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

After experimenting with reversing the pawl it clicks going the wrong way (lowering instead of raising) so it must not be right.

I printed out a 1:1 copy of the original and bent the spring to precisely match it.

I tried a fo-leather washer to increase friction

I'm going to dig in my hardware box for a wavy washer... I think I might have one that may work.

We've got a welder coming today so I'm going to see if he can braze the old one back together. I checked the new one and it's so close I'm afraid to work on it anymore.

and now every time I assemble it my fingers all cry "Nooooo don't drop the drum on meeeeeee"
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Old 24-11-2015, 10:53   #22
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

After looking closely yet again I have come to a few conclusions that I'm 99% certain are correct.

1. Based on the wear patterns on the old pawl the side with the Ts is definitely up. See how the flattened area matches where the teeth of the drum mesh into the drive teeth on the pawl shaft. So when the drum turned it was wearing that flat spot onto the pawl. However the wear isn't a perfect curve matching the edge of the drum due to the rocking of the pawl back and forth.

2. Adding a washer or some other method of increasing friction when rotating the handle CCW will push the pawl more into the drum teeth, not less.

I may be missing something but I just cannot see a way that just just turning the handle CCW will cause the pawl to pull back unless there's another part or piece not there or I can't see. Sure there's no extra little spring or lever or something that fell out? Have you looked in the bilge for mystery parts?

On you previous thread someone mentioned they have the same winch but chromed. I think you need to contact that person and offer them a $1000 to take their winch apart and figure out how it works.
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Old 24-11-2015, 11:07   #23
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

Quote:
Originally Posted by autumnbreeze27 View Post
After experimenting with reversing the pawl it clicks going the wrong way (lowering instead of raising) so it must not be right.

I printed out a 1:1 copy of the original and bent the spring to precisely match it.

I tried a fo-leather washer to increase friction

I'm going to dig in my hardware box for a wavy washer... I think I might have one that may work.

We've got a welder coming today so I'm going to see if he can braze the old one back together. I checked the new one and it's so close I'm afraid to work on it anymore.

and now every time I assemble it my fingers all cry "Nooooo don't drop the drum on meeeeeee"
Oh man I feel for you. But once this is mastered you'll not forget, nor need to do it again likely. Experience is something you get after you need it situation.
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Old 24-11-2015, 11:37   #24
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

AutumnBreeze - There are MANY worse places to be stck than La Pax, BCS, MX, and few better!
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Old 24-11-2015, 12:24   #25
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

Well Jason thinking about it you probably broke it with the keel partially down so it was getting hit by wave movement as obviousely the keel is lowered by gravity. This nearly snapped the wire for me once. All down or all up I think is your solution.. Just emailed you to say ours clicks up and down ! After fitting the new pin I only drop the keel to clean it.. If you still have the bronze pin in your keel it will be in a bad way by now. Access is through a small fiberglass panel on the port side.
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Old 24-11-2015, 12:36   #26
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

The fact that yours clicks both ways is new. I've been looking at it and thinking that maybe the shape of the spring is off, but I took a picture of it as soon as I pulled it so I wonder if it somehow got tweaked after the pawl broke.

I considered drilling a hole in the side of the winch and running a line to the pawl so I could pull it away to disengage for lowering, but not sure if that would work.

My other thought is to pull the pawl out, and crank it up, tie a line under the boat to keep it up, then with slack in my dyneema line I could run another piece of dyneema through it and make a lanyard so I could hook it to a bolt and use that to hold the board up (instead of tieing off the winch handle)

The big problem is if I winch the board up with the pawl in, I'd have no way to lower it, I'd guess I'd have to cut the dyneema to drop it and that would suck on multiple levels.

As to being in la paz, yeah it's not so bad, just tired of all the repairs... we've got main and genoa out for repair, this winch is taking too long, and I have to drill some holes in our ss water tank so I can fit a sender in it, which is going to be very unpleasant. We're waiting on a welder who is supposed to look at our broken davits today, and after hurricane sandra hits mazatlan we're hopefully get off the docks for a while. Our boat and our cruising kitty are not meant for slip life. We'll have to come back to get the parts for our autopilot, and then we're off for the mainland.
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Old 24-11-2015, 12:40   #27
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

Well all I can say for sure is 38 clicks means its fully down so I give it 40 and you can hear when it goes up as you know by the thud ! Did I also forget to mention in big seas (10'+)the tube the wire comes out of is like a spray hose inside the boat ! Another reason we are thinking of closing it all off.
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Old 24-11-2015, 12:52   #28
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

any ideas why the top of the spindle has this corkscrew in it? Maybe a part is missing from here?
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Old 24-11-2015, 13:11   #29
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

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Originally Posted by autumnbreeze27 View Post
any ideas why the top of the spindle has this corkscrew in it? Maybe a part is missing from here?
I think you're on to something. That looks like a bit that will work like a spiral ramp to raise or lower some part depending on the direction of rotation.

I can't tell from the photo where that is in the winch. Doesn't look like the bit in the bottom of the housing where the main drum sits. Is that the non-square end of the shaft that holds the pawl and where the handle attaches?
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Old 24-11-2015, 13:29   #30
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Re: Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz

Here's a far away shot. I'll admit probably 50% of my testing has been without buttoning the damn thing all the way back up. But the way it's cut I don't really see it moving the drum much if at all unless I'm missing something (mentally or physically)
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