Meranti

[Butch .H]

Hi all. Please opinions about using Meranti for my deck.
Regards
Butch

[Wotname]

Butch, are you talking using for planking the deck or framing it, how you are going to treat it (paint, epoxy, whatever) and how long do you want it to last.

Having said that, if it is the same meranti as sold in Oz, I would be not using it unless the only other alternatives were worse. And if I had to use it, I would totally encapsulate it with epoxy. I do use it internally for furniture framing etc.

[Butch .H]

Hi .Yes fraiming only.I have found Iroko for planking.

Regards
Butch

[northerncat]

its a rainforest timber and i have found that it is more rot resistant than hooppine if that s any help
sean

[cooper]

Meranti, the name can be other woods. sold by all sorts of people. It is a wonderful dress timber, in its real form. with a great range of colours.Greys/pinks/to light tans. True Meranti is very soft. I would not use it for anything structural. I would also be careful using it as a trim if it is going to take a beating. It is commonly sold in a pre machined form as architraves and skirting boards in Aus. It is very easily machined and takes paint well. I dont know of any circumstances where it has been used extensively outdoors.
I have found the grain to be more variable than pine. If it is cheap and the application is internal/non structural, then I would have no problems..I would rate it with plantation oregon.

[cooper]

is more rot resistant than hooppine

....really? I have not had the experience to compare them side by side, and this really surprises me. I know Meranti has a natural oiliness to it, but I just thought that hoop pine was so much more dense. Hoop pine is heading towards a hard wood. ( Not that the name ((biologically))means that one is harder or softer). Just that hoop pine has been used as barrel stave's/ masts and a number of other external applications. I have not seen Meranti in these applications. Perhaps its more like Queensland beech in its nature? (For people outside of Australia).....the names of our timers bare NO resemblance to the American or European species. They where named because they looked like/ or seemed like their overseas counter parts by the early botanists. Even to this day the myths continue, much to the annoyance of plantofiles. Eucalypts in timber form are renamed Australian Oak. And thats just the sad start.....

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by cooper

....Perhaps its more like Queensland beech in its nature? ...

Qld beech or white beech is often used for decking (my previous boat had Qld beech laid deck) and I am told is also used for planking. See http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/hardwoodsqld/8269.html

Originally Posted by northerncat

its a rainforest timber and i have found that it is more rot resistant than hooppine if that s any help
sean

My experience has been the opposite although maybe we are talking a different meranti. Hoop Pine has a reputation as a reasonable boat building timber and Australian marine plywood consists entirley of Hoop Pine.
See http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/hardwoodsqld/18721.html and http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/hardwoodsqld/12458.html and http://www.australply.com.au/pr_marine.html

[Butch .H]

Hi All thanks for the input. I have sourced various timbers at vere reasonable prices mainly iroko origon pine and meranti. The meranti avalible is light pink and almost a balsa type look and feel.

Regards
Butch

[northerncat]

actually you can get australian marine ply in meranti as well
sean

[MidLandOne]

I don't know if the US Dep't of Agriculture Wood Handbook has been mentioned on this forum before, but if not it is available for download (either in sections or the whole book); current page it is at is Forest Products Laboratory -- Forest Service -- USDA .

It has a bit about Meranti and the various species the name is applied to.

I use timber only rarely so the value I see in the manual may not be seen by others of more reliable opinion .

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Wotname

.... and Australian marine plywood consists entirley of Hoop Pine. ...

Originally Posted by northerncat

actually you can get australian marine ply in meranti as well
sean

Sean, my typing didn't keep up with my brain, I was intending to type Austral P/L Australian marine ply - sorry.

I would be interested in sourcing some Australian marine ply containing Meranti so if you can help me with a source, I would be grateful.

By Australian, I am referring to the Aussie / Kiwi standard AS/NZS 2272 - 2006. The only Meranti plywood I have been able to source in the past was imported and the marine version was to the British standard BS 1088, which, while good, is, IMHO, a lower standard and I have only used it form internal fitting out.

[cooper]

By Australian, I am referring to the Aussie / Kiwi standard AS/NZS 2272 - 2006. The only Meranti plywood I have been able to source in the past was imported and the marine version was to the British standard BS 1088, which, while good, is, IMHO, a lower standard and I have only used it form internal fitting out.

this is as I have found it too. There are three main standards of marine ply sold on the Australian market. The Australian standards are very strict and of a very high standard. The sheets are also expensive. The British standards seem to have a a mix of timbers, mostly source from overseas tropical rainforest's.The timber far less dense. The American standard sheets seem to be a real mixed bag. I have found the stamping and standards numbers vary. When I have asked further questions the responses seem to be muted. This is not a reflection on the standard, but perhaps on the manufacturer or supplier. The British and American seem to mostly manufactured in Indonesia or Malaysia.
Further too. I had discussions with the owner of a major supplier of sheet board in Australia. I asked him just the questions that we are discussing.
What was of interest to me was that he stated that all Australian made structural and exterior ply board uses the same glues and processes as the marine grade.The difference was the timber laminate. To that end he sore no difference in using a well painted structural C/D ply that was going to be well sealed in an interior situation. The voids that exist with this grade need to be treated accordingly. ie after you cut the sheet if the end grain has a significant void then it should be filled and sealed to stop any moisture ingress. He further said that it was the "wicking" of the timber end grain and its subsequent swelling that was the disaster, waiting to happen. Some timbers are less prone to this and obviously density or oiliness helps. What I have done previously with success (5 years) is to saturate the end grain with a thinned primer and then top coated with a solid enamel.

I also note that on my present "project" that one sheet that is a major bulkhead, that has been subjected to rain, is starting to show surface lifts along the grain lines. This sheet did not get the full solid coat that it should have.



cheers

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by cooper

.....

I also note that on my present "project" that one sheet that is a major bulkhead, that has been subjected to rain, is starting to show surface lifts along the grain lines. This sheet did not get the full solid coat that it should have.......

The best test I have found for plywood is to inspect the untreated offcuts that have been lying on the ground for a year or so - OK, so I am a bit untidy in that respect - ; this gives a real life test of their ability to weather.

These empricial tests indicate to me that Aussie 100% hoop pine marine ply to AS/NZS 2272 - 2006 is pretty good compared to the rest.

I also have sheet of structal exterior ply (from an unknown source) that has been continuously exposed to the weather for a bit over 2 years and it is almost disintegrated while offcuts of the above marine ply lying nearby are quite sound.

Butch, sorry for drifting your thread into plywoods.

[Butch .H]

No problem my old boat has a plywood(meranti) sheath so that would have come up next.I will be needing a plywood underlay for the deck as well
Regards
Butch

[Alan Wheeler]

British standard BS 1088, which, while good, is, IMHO, a lower standard and I have only used it form internal fitting out.

Maranti and Gaboon Plys are all made to the same standards. They come in as a plain sheet of ply and are tested and stamped with the BS1088 and thus then have a price of twice the standard. I used to use Maranti ply in huge quantities for Commercial concert speakers. They had to come up to all sorts of standards for flying several tons of speakers above peoples heads at concerts. The BS1088 stamp meant no more than the ability to charge twice the price. In fact at one stage it was nearly three times the price.
Certainly if one is building a hull to Survey requirements, a BS1088 stamp is important. But for normal use inside or out, the use of non-stamped ply is just as good. Gaboon is often used for below water line, but I suspect it is better only in that it is a lighter ply.
Interestingly, these ply's are cheaper than our cheap and nasty useless pine ply's.

Another comment I read above was about hard and soft woods. Now I realise it was probably a comment made in a different context, but just to be clear, Hard and Soft wood has nothing to do with the hardness (or Softness) of the timber itself. It is denoted by the type of leaf the tree has. Did you know that Balsa wood is actually a Hard wood. Dumb I know. Why on earth timber was ever classified that way beets me.
Please read the studyhall to see the list of toxicity of some of the timbers we work with. Some are really nasty.