Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-10-2012, 03:05   #121
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Goteborg City,
Boat: 31' GRP Folkboat
Posts: 273
Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

Hi folks.

As i write this , the trip has come to a unvoluntary temporary stop.
I had an really eye-opening experience , a week ago.

Before I continue , I'll admit this: As a electrician and computer guy I put far too much trust in electrical aids, but as I'm confident in map an compass navigation, I believed I could get away with it.

Well , were to begin...
We started from skarhamn in southwest sweden, going south.
The wind and current came from south.
The first leg was southwest, out to open water.
The weather was a bit worse than the forecast, but I've been out in worse before. Well out on the open sea, we hit a wave hard, and all electrics died including my compass. Well , I found my emergency compass and paper charts.
We soon decided that we had to get closer to land to get landmarks to navigate by. We crossed the wind , and headed southwest.
Suddenly, water was flowing into the boat. we called on the sea rescue with the handheld VHF , but were out of range.

The I started to bail out water..I managed to barely bail more water than was coming in. When I got the water level down to the cabin floor, I started to search for the leak. As it turned out, the whole battery shelf had broke , the battery box had fallen down onto the port trough-hull fitting for the cocpit bail and broken the tube fitting.

Right away , we turned around , going west, with the sails tuned for maximum heel. I got the trough hull fitting over the waterline , and plugged it from the outside.

Now.. I started looking for my emergency compass , wich I foolishly forgot to hang around my neck. I must have bailed it out with the water..

I managed to get power on my big VHF with the little current left in the battery , and got in contact with the sea rescue service.

After a while I saw a ligthouse , and thought things were looking better.
But.. as it turned out, here are two lighthouses with the exact same charateristic only 5 nm apart.. and I'm looking at the wrong one..

So the sea rescue service was looking for me 5 miles to the south..
Anyway , I managed to get the boat into sheltered water,where we then barely touched ground, before deciding to put the boat at anchor , and go to land in the zodiac to seek help and directions at some houses on the island.

We met some fantastic people , who lent us a shower , made hot soup , and guided us into harbour with their boat.

Lessons learned:

Electronic main compass is no good.
No heavy equip mounted above trough-hulls.
emergency hoses and sealer for all trough-hulls.
ALLWAYS emergency compass around the neck
Handheld GPS with compass for all crewmembers.
Emergency antenna for the handheld VHF.
KEEP THE BOAT TIDY!!!!
Check the map several miles to all directinons when lost , there could be several lighthouses with the same characteristics close by.

Right now , I'm mounting a Plastimo contest 101 compass , a geonav 11 flash plotter, have bought handheld GPS for the crew (if she dares to continue.. still out in the open..)

And from now on I'm considering the OpenCPN laptop as a fun gadget, nothing more.. uses too much power in a sailboat anyway.
I'll also add emergency lithium powerpacks for all essential Nav equipment onboard.

I'll stay here a week or so , doing stuff in the boat wich should be done before the trip..

.manitu
__________________

__________________
manitu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2012, 05:34   #122
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

Hey Manu & the Brave Crew!

You did very well - for you saved the ship and her crew! Things like this happen and then you can see 'who sinks and who swims'. And every time things happen one learns a lesson. Then we use the lessons and go no sailing.

When we had our knock down (unfortunately - in the middle of the ocean - no chance to get rescue) I too bailed out ... our handheld GPS. I panicked to see water gushing into the bilge ... if we only had an EPIRB ... But we did not, and so we saved ourseves and our boat! (An exact replacement GPS well wrapped in plastic bag in a designated locker went a long way...)

Big adventure! I am sure you will have everything fixed and dry in no time. I bet adventure beckons ...

Great reading your updates every time. Keep posting!

Kramkram,
barnakiel
__________________

__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2012, 05:57   #123
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Goteborg City,
Boat: 31' GRP Folkboat
Posts: 273
Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

Thanks for the kind words ,I dont feel too confident or proud at the moment.

The last post should ofcourse read , "we crossed the wind , from southwest to southEAST" ...

I'm still wondering what I was thinking when installing a old electronic compass as my main one.. stupid stupid me..

.manitu
__________________
manitu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2012, 06:09   #124
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Goteborg City,
Boat: 31' GRP Folkboat
Posts: 273
Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

Right now , NMEA....
I got.. raymarine st1000 autopilot
lowrance VHF w/DSC
geonav 11 flash plotter
NMEA GPS antenna..

The GPS antenna should send to the plotter and VHF , right?
Then the plotter should send to the autopilot, I guess..

The plotter has one auxillary NMEA input as well, but dont know if I need it for now..
I understand that the sounder and wind sensor should use that input..

The autopilot has a built-in compass , but I'm not shure if I can feed it to the plotter without a multiplexer..

.manitu
__________________
manitu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2012, 06:26   #125
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

IMHO nothing wrong with an electronic compass as long as you have a magnetic one always visible from your steering seat - ours is next to the companionway. BTW make sure you do have a spare bulb for yours - something I learned the hard way during our last outing ;-)

The way we use GPS here is we have two identical units (right now they are a 72 and a 76 models from Garmin - EUR 100 each). They both get programmed WPTS before the passage. They both have lights (nav aids) built in. One sits in the cockpit with the driver. The other sits in a locker down below - very well secured. If the cockpit one dies ... we just switch on the other one et voila!

We use the laptop only to store & view the charts and to program the handhelds. In very rare situations we will pull out the PC to pilot us - only if the coast is very intricate and if our paper charts would be too difficult to quickly resolve where we are and where we are headed. (Now that we have AIS here we also use the netbook to view the bigger picture of where other ships are and what they are doing).

Over time you will find your own balance of tools vs. senses and every body of water does call for a different approach to which tools to use and how. Flexibility and preparedness are I think the words.

It is late now so do be very, very cautious when choosing your wx windows - weather influences our judgment of actual danger to a vast degree. Sail in fair weather and you will be able to manage nearly all and any emergency. Come some chop and cold and a minor setback can be seen as life threatening event.

Take good care of your crew - make sure they are warm, relaxed and they see you can manage things. Discuss things - what you are going to do, what is happening, and then discuss the past events to see how you both can manage to avoid 'adventures' in the future. A boat alone sails to nowhere, it takes two ...

Our boats are quite similar and so I think our sailing styles may have some relationship. Hence my (I hope not too) many comments.

Cheers,
barnakiel
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2012, 06:53   #126
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitu View Post
Right now , NMEA....
I got.. raymarine st1000 autopilot
lowrance VHF w/DSC
geonav 11 flash plotter
NMEA GPS antenna..

The GPS antenna should send to the plotter and VHF , right?
Then the plotter should send to the autopilot, I guess..

The plotter has one auxillary NMEA input as well, but dont know if I need it for now..
I understand that the sounder and wind sensor should use that input..

The autopilot has a built-in compass , but I'm not shure if I can feed it to the plotter without a multiplexer..

.manitu
Some GPS antennas are passive (they will have a VHF cable connection then) and some are actually small GPS units (then they have plain three or more wire connection). You can split a GPS signal from an active one, but if you have a passive antenna then you first feed its signal to the plotter and then the plotter resolves the signal and makes the GPS data out of it. If the plotter has NMEA-out port, then you can use its signal to feed it into the VHF.

New VHFs are DSC and they want to have the MMSI number programmed - otherwise their DSC part of functionality WILL NOT WORK (e.g. the red button DSC DISTRESS will NOT transmit). So, with any new radio, program the MMSI in and feed the GPS signal too. As long as you follow the coast you can use the mobile phone in emergency too(!)

Autohelm 1000 IMHO cannot feed its signal (compass data) into the plotter (check manuals, maybe they got improved along the way). But most plotters use GPS data to calculate your heading anyways. Just beware - GPS direction (heading) is valid only when your boat is moving - it gets calculated from your consecutive positions. When the boat goes very slow or is at anchor, etc., the heading calculation goes berserk. Beware. A way out, if you really want one, is to get a compatible 'electronic' compass and plug it into the plotter - just make sure the plotter does know to use this data!!! (Some do not).

If your Geonav has AIS input you can (relatively!) cheaply add an AIS receiver. Well worth it unless you already have a radar. In any case this is not urgent unless you are sailing in areas with big traffic and/or bad visibility.

If you are an electronics sailor, do keep a handheld unit ready to go at any time (switch yours on from time to time - it will update its fix and make for a faster start next time, and do replace its batteries before the screen starts blinking ;-)))

Okidoki,
my two EURcents ;-)
b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2012, 08:12   #127
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Goteborg City,
Boat: 31' GRP Folkboat
Posts: 273
Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

The gps antenna is active (Tx+, Tx-, VCC, GND, serial in)
The tiller pilot is an raymarine , not autohelm , but looks like it only sends compass heading on seatalk , not NMEA.. I coult then buy a seatalk compass display with NMEA out, but I guess that would cost as much as a compass sensor.

Well , looks like my NMEA network is going to bee a simple one-way street , with the VHF on the side.
Later on, I'll get a sounder module , but it will go on the secondary input on the plotter , so it should not complicate things..

Would be nice to get the computer into the network , but as I said, the computer is just a gadget for looking at maps when in harbour. Not where I'll put my money right now.

Well , have to take the zodiac into town to get some brackets an bolts.. I'll be back later.

.manitu
__________________
manitu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2012, 08:45   #128
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,198
Images: 52
Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitu View Post
Thanks for the kind words ,I dont feel too confident or proud at the moment.

The last post should ofcourse read , "we crossed the wind , from southwest to southEAST" ...

I'm still wondering what I was thinking when installing a old electronic compass as my main one.. stupid stupid me..

.manitu


I understand, but confident and proud is exactly what you should feel IMHO. You crossed the first major hurdle with flying colors, and learned a number of basic but very important lessons in the process. Congratulations! You made it. Your boat and crew survived a major mishap.
__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2012, 10:55   #129
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitu View Post
The gps antenna is active (Tx+, Tx-, VCC, GND, serial in)
The tiller pilot is an raymarine , not autohelm , but looks like it only sends compass heading on seatalk , not NMEA.. I coult then buy a seatalk compass display with NMEA out, but I guess that would cost as much as a compass sensor.

Well , looks like my NMEA network is going to bee a simple one-way street , with the VHF on the side.
Later on, I'll get a sounder module , but it will go on the secondary input on the plotter , so it should not complicate things..

Would be nice to get the computer into the network , but as I said, the computer is just a gadget for looking at maps when in harbour. Not where I'll put my money right now.

Well , have to take the zodiac into town to get some brackets an bolts.. I'll be back later.

.manitu
There is a SeaTalk translator box that converts SeaTalk ino NMEA sentences. Probably not worth the cost unless you have a good reason to need digital compass input for anything (some boats use heading info for aligning their radar displays with the digital chart).

But an echo instrument, unless you already have one, is an inexpensive and great tool onboard. It does not need to be interfaced. They back up in some situations as anchor alarms - you can have GPS anchor drag alarm on and alarms for deep and shallow water on the echo. Pretty belt and braces situation and helps to sleep well at anchor.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2012, 11:34   #130
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Goteborg City,
Boat: 31' GRP Folkboat
Posts: 273
Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

My plan is to get a NMEA sounder module and a NMEA repeater display (in case the plotter quits). Then I'll get both GPS and sounder readings without the geonav plotter.

The reason why I want a compass sensor is to get the course/boat heading offset on the screen. But I'll go for a NMEA fluxgate compass instead of some seatalk converter thingy anyway, it will still work when the autopilot is tucked away if not broke.

Thanks for the kind words, both of you. I understand that we did a lot of things right, but It is a bit harder to explain to a unexperienced crewmember..

Well, we'll survive , and I'll keep on sailing, no doubt. I just hope I'll keep my crew. I could search for a lifetime and still not find one as smart, dependable, and good looking one as the girl wich I might have scared from sailing on.

.manitu
__________________
manitu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2012, 11:47   #131
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

Well, I am not sure your crew qualifies as 'unexperienced' any more!

You can tell your crew that a guy you know sailed his boat across the North Sea only to get abruptly stopped by a harbour bar (at 18:00) and later on the same day by some underwater structures (at 24:00), in Scotland A.D. 2003. He actually nearly cried that day...

Adventures, good and bad, are lessons. They teach us how to sail, how to crew and how to select our boats and our sailing partners.

Courage!
b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2012, 07:39   #132
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Goteborg City,
Boat: 31' GRP Folkboat
Posts: 273
Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

Man , this bad trip just wont end...
Last evening , while I'm busy working in the boat the wind increases suddenly. before it hits my mind that I got a lot of stuff lying on the dock, one of my sail bags has blown off.. The wind increases fast , and there is no way I dare to go looking for it in the dark.

Today , still windy , I go looking for it in the zodiac. When I get back , still not found my sail , the main hatch is open , and the dog missing! Because of idiot fishing boats who don't give a damn about the 5kt limit, the boat lies 1,5 meters from the pier and there is no way she could have made it onto the pier.
I panic , run to the nearest house to ask if someone have seen her, but no..

After about 10 minutes I hear weak barking from the harbour. I look all over , no dog.
Then another bark. At last I find her sitting under the main dock, shaking.

Right now, we're in the boat in front of the heater , hoping to avoid any illness , wich would really detroy this trip.

Man , I'm tired.. I,ll go to gothenburg, most likely stay there for the winter, get a overhauled diesel-engine , or maybe , just maybe, an electric engine installed, and sail on in march... I might go to copenhagen if I get real good weather forcasts , but I'll wait for spring before sailing on down europe.

I'm not finished sailing , but I'll build my experience during an easier season.

.manitu
__________________
manitu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2012, 10:42   #133
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,002
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

If it's any consolation, the US Army did a test with GI's that debunked a correlation between getting cold leading to illness. They put one group of soldiers out in the cold without proper clothing and had another group who weren't super cooled. No difference in rate of sickness between the two. Pretty extensive study, IIRC. Who else has so many healthy people to plat with.

Hope things get better for you.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2012, 10:49   #134
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Goteborg City,
Boat: 31' GRP Folkboat
Posts: 273
Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

Yeah , makes sense, kinda..
I remember my time in the force , We were sent out in -25C without tents or sleeping bags early in the service , firemaking prohibited. some of us got so cold they pissed in their pants while sleeping , noone got seriously ill.

Still , it's a dog , and I have no way of knowing how much saltwater she has digested.. makes me worry more than if it had been me.

.manitu
__________________
manitu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2012, 05:22   #135
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

Manu,

Dogs are far more resilient than people. One of my dogs fell into icy water one winter and it took us at least 15 minutes to recover him. The poor guy shivered badly but was as good as new next morning.

I bet you may like Goteborg. That's where we took off in early 2003! Fiskeback is where we kept our boat. Back in 2003/4 there were very good services immediately at Fiskeback - sailmakers, engine mechanics, repair shops and chandleries. We visited again in 2011 and I believe Fiskeback is still such a good place. GREFAB used to manage the boats/marina and dry storage.

Around Goteborg, you have the archipelago and small harbours therein so you can find a decent, well priced winter layup hole. Fast ferries go from the archipelago to Saltholmen and then you have a tram. There are also good lay-up places almost immediate to city center but they are believed to be more pricey (no personal experience though).

Get yourself a winter job perhaps - it is a long dark winter up there in the North, but you know this part better than me.

March can be very early to leave. Back in 2003 we came down in mid-May and it was still around 10 deg C in the mornings and some frost at night. We took off around midsommer and I think reasonably one can start moving about early June perhaps. Sure vikings can sail also in March, but it may be still very cold.

Stay away from moms ;-) enjoy honokaka ;-) and lingonsylt ;-)))

Let us know how it is going.

Big hug to you, your crew, the dog and the boat!

PS You may be pissed off then think there are some people basking in Canary sun right now who would LOVE to spend some time in Goteborg! So it is - human condition!

barnakiel
__________________

__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:32.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.