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Old 15-06-2012, 16:55   #46
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Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

I'll defer to your experience. I've always used wood and it's hard for me to understand how the foam is used without a picture so I'll just stay out of the conversation.
kind regards,
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Old 15-06-2012, 17:22   #47
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Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

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I'll defer to your experience. I've always used wood and it's hard for me to understand how the foam is used without a picture so I'll just stay out of the conversation.
kind regards,

Perhaps the OP will post some comprehensive pics that make the situation clear. We can only hope. If not maybe I'll dredge up some pics of similar work. This really is the way to go from every angle, costs less, takes less time, and yields a superior result.
It is challenging to take pics while you are trying to move fast on a laminate, especially witthout ruining a camera with resin fingers. We have several dedicated shop cams and I still rarely take pics of a job in process, unless it's for an absentee owner. Then I often send pics as a progress report.
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Old 16-06-2012, 02:39   #48
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Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

I've been all around the county looking for new keelbolts , before finally a local boatbuilder shared his supplier. I've bought bolts , plates and nuts in Stainless-a4-80.

Yeah , taking pictures while doing the layup is no easy task but I got some extra help today so I'll try to manage.

Here is one from the dusty hell wich is my workspace right now.

If you look closely , you can see two finished floors with bolts , and the triangular "floor" where the bolt closest to the bow is.

Anyhow.. None of the original bolts did much to keep the keel in place.


I'm absolutely shure that the laminate is much stronger than the wood has been the past 10 years.

One question: as the floors ar quite close to each other, there is not much space to make tapered tabs between the floors. Do you see any problems wit making the bilge one big tab , tapered out to the sides?

About my experience.. Not too much , I've done repairs to my own speedboats and built some RC-planes in balsa and epoxy, but I ask for help when I'm not shure of my abilities.

.manitu

(sorry about the picture size, posted directly from my cell-phone)
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Old 16-06-2012, 02:52   #49
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Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

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I've been all around the county looking for new keelbolts , before finally a local boatbuilder shared his supplier. I've bought bolts , plates and nuts in Stainless-a4-80.

Yeah , taking pictures while doing the layup is no easy task but I got some extra help today so I'll try to manage.

Here is one from the dusty hell wich is my workspace right now.

If you look closely , you can see two finished floors with bolts , and the triangular "floor" where the bolt closest to the bow is.

Anyhow.. None of the original bolts did much to keep the keel in place.


I'm absolutely shure that the laminate is much stronger than the wood has been the past 10 years.

One question: as the floors ar quite close to each other, there is not much space to make tapered tabs between the floors. Do you see any problems wit making the bilge one big tab , tapered out to the sides?

About my experience.. Not too much , I've done repairs to my own speedboats and built some RC-planes in balsa and epoxy, but I ask for help when I'm not shure of my abilities.

.manitu

(sorry about the picture size, posted directly from my cell-phone)

It's fine for the tabs to overlap or touch between the floors, but try to taper them off onto the hull on the outboard ends nicely, as you say. Nice shots of the original floors, that says it all. It never ceases to amaze me how boats are often in incredibly bad condition when they come to me. I'm often surprised they are still afloat. I've seen cases where the planks were only being held on by hydrostatic pressure, and a plank fell off as soon as we picked the boat! This wasn't that bad yet, but a catastrophic failure would have occured at some point in the near future if you hadn't fixed it. Now it should be good to go in that regard for the forseeable future! No more structural components that rot or rust is a good feeling...
Next time think about taping up some plastic sheeting before shredding, it can take a very long time to get a boat interior really clean after an epic grind session like that. If you don't tent off the work area it gets into the bilge and behind all the cabinetry. This is bad, because you have to open all cabinets and remove all drawers and really get in there with the vacuum. Otherwise itchy glass dust will sit on top of the stringers and in other obscure places, and will fall into your drawers of clothing at the worst times. You don't want this, especially if you have a female about ever. Vacuum thoroughly, then blow with high pressure air, then vacuum again, or you will be sad at some point in the future.
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Old 16-06-2012, 04:07   #50
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Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

I don't worry about the dust for one reason: the interior is getting an overhaul as well. After the deck/hull joint....

One thing I've forgot to mention in this thread.. I'm currently staying at a mate's house. I live up in northern norway above the arctic circle. The boat is situated in Halden, Norway , on the swedish border.

When the boat is afloat , I'll go home to earn som more money , and come back after a month. Didn't plan on using two weeks to get it on the water...

Well , anything that does'nt kill you , makes you stronger, and I would say I know my boat better than most when I'm finished.

.manitu
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Old 16-06-2012, 09:07   #51
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Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

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Originally Posted by manitu View Post
I don't worry about the dust for one reason: the interior is getting an overhaul as well. After the deck/hull joint....

One thing I've forgot to mention in this thread.. I'm currently staying at a mate's house. I live up in northern norway above the arctic circle. The boat is situated in Halden, Norway , on the swedish border.

When the boat is afloat , I'll go home to earn som more money , and come back after a month. Didn't plan on using two weeks to get it on the water...

Well , anything that does'nt kill you , makes you stronger, and I would say I know my boat better than most when I'm finished.

.manitu

Well, you sure saved a ton of money doing this yourself. Kudos for having the guts to just go for it despite your lack of experience.
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Old 16-06-2012, 09:25   #52
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Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

Manitu, those are great photos of the floors. Those little bitty limber holes could very well have been a contributing factor in the soaking and rot. Since the bilge is narrow it may be hard to make them much larger, but worth the effort. You have been given a lot of good advice, but I would be careful of the suggestion to put screens over the limber holes. Screens will clog up quickly even in the best kept boats, which will defeat the purpose of the limber holes. In years past, one of the methods of keeping limber holes clear was to run a length of small bronze chain through the limber holes so that you could yank the chain back and forth to break up the inevitable crud that builds up. It was left permanently in place. In this day and age I would use small synthetic rope if I wanted that system. Best of Luck to you.____Grant.
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Old 17-06-2012, 10:57   #53
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Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

Man , what a job this is.. Mounted three of the last four floors yesterday. We were going to mount the last one too , but ran out of mat..

Here are the foam cores, allmost to be glued. I'm using the old keelbolts as guides.


Here you can see the new floor , just covered with two layers of chopped strand. The other floor is allmost finished , Only thing left is to fill the hole with a sealer of some sort.
you see the difference in size.. The core is four inches wide , the finished floor is 5-1/8".

I think they should be strong enough...

.manitu
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Old 17-06-2012, 11:39   #54
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Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

Looks great! Do you plan on brushing gelcoat over the whole bilge when you're done? It's really nice to do. It probably would have been a lot easier to install glass limber tubes before installing the floors, it will be a pain to drill those. Sometimes floors are close enough together that you need to drill for limber holes as you go, otherwise you are forced to use a right angle drill and/or drill from both sides with a shorter bit. Careful you don't paint yourself into a corner with that one!
For the floors with pairs of bolts I would have gone with a single bar of steel for both bolts as a way to spread load further, but I'm sure it'll be fine as is. Just glass the tops nice and thick, when you drill and check thickness you'll know if the top lam is 1/2" or more as it should be.
Normally when fitting I would make sure the tops are all level and in plane with each other, and that all floors are perfectly square to the hull and parallel to each other, which it looks like may not be the case here, but frankly as long as nothing rests on these floors and everythings a little overbuilt it shouldn't really matter. Just a question of cosmetics and resale value. No reason to get out the digital level and the laser beams as long as you don't mind.
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Old 17-06-2012, 12:25   #55
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About the limber holes... Open your mind wide open now.. Ain't gonna make any. I'll fill the voids with foam and glass over them.

The main bilge pump is going right behind the keelbolt floor to the aft. In front of all the keelbolts I'll put a bilge/showerpump on auto.
There is about one inch space between the floors and the hmmm.. floor? If one pump fails' the water will flow over the keelbolt floors to the other pump. I'll seal the keelbolt nuts with glass first, offcourse.

.manitu
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Old 17-06-2012, 13:09   #56
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Good observation, no they arent exactly level..neither is the boat right now. The whole boat lists slightly to port, so finishing the job now could end in disaster. They look worse on that picture than the are though. I had to cover half of the lens from the light so I guess there is some corner distortion in that photo.

I'll level the whole floor from the second keelbolt to the front, to the rearmost keelbolt later. I know this will make the center of the bilge higher than it is in front of the keelbolts, but I'm installing a extra bilge pump there anyway because of the shower. And there is still an inch space below the cabin floor so water can flow unretricted between the bilgepumps.

.manitu
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Old 17-06-2012, 13:37   #57
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Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

I'm very visual so thanks for the photos. I'm understanding now and I like your work. If this was being done in the 80s and I had heard of it I'd have done it in my boat when I replaced the floors. I used timber.
I'll have to say that I would not fill the bilge. I think its better to have some water sloshing around in a deeper bilge than on the cabin sole and in your furniture.
kind regards,
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Old 17-06-2012, 13:41   #58
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Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

I'd put in limber holes. Just got through selling a boat with reinforcing FRP ribs in the bilge without limber holes. Had to bail out each of the spaces by hand to keep the water from sloshing all around when sailing. Even the few inches of water trapped seemed to soak everything attached to the hull on boisterous days and most everything on nice days sailing. PO had used a whale foot galley pump to pump out the inter stringer spaces but the foot pedal was broken. Didn't own the boat long enough to fix/replace the pump. Hand bailing was definitely a PITA. Good thing the boat didn't have any deck leaks.

Your doing a great job of it.
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Old 17-06-2012, 14:07   #59
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I'm thinking about sealing the voids between the floors completely, with one bilge pump behind the rearmost keelbolt and one pump in front of the keel, below the bathroom.

The water will not slosh around, it will either flow back to the main bilge pump well, or forward to the shower/ bilge pump.

.manitu
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Old 17-06-2012, 18:27   #60
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Re: Manitu's project: Finessa 33

I think I understand what you're wanting to do. If you don't get much volume of water and no oil in the bilge then it might be an ok thing to do. Just something to consider. Limber holes and a bronze chain to clear them have been used for many years with good success. I suppose glassed over foam would be ok if it is foam that doesn't soak up moisture.
Good luck in whatever you do. It looks like you're doing a good and fast job.
kind regards,
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