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Old 02-05-2014, 18:58   #31
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Re: Maintaining a Timber Boat

Hi All, I guess if you are not maintaining your boat, you will be maintaining something else. I owned and cruised extensively over a period of 32 years a 48' Herrshoff ketch, We had her since new, built here on Vancouver Island of red cedar on white oak, 2 inch teak cabin sides when you could still afford it. Over those years, we slowly saw her settling into her old age,(like me) taking more and more time to look after. We spent many years in the tropics and even on the last voyage drove her hard for 20 plus thousand miles in 2000-2002 down as far as Easter Island.
It just depends how much energy you have I guess. I look at some of the fibreglass sailboats and excluding the hull they often have as much bright work as we had on "Candlewin" If you like that look then you better be prepared to work for it, and it is rewarding.
I guess I came from the same world as Capn Phil, certainly the same area of the world and a similar working past. I think I have owned something like seven working boats over 40 years old and all doing a good days work when needed. I worked on a wooden coastal freighter for a couple of years as mate and skipper, built in 1942 and still running strong,carrying up to a hundred passengers and freight. Phil would know the Uchuck for sure.
So, don't let the wood aspect scare you, it is more a state of mind.
As a segue, make sure you wash the yellow cedar planking welll with acetone or something similar to take the surface oils off, or the paint doesn't bond well.
I added a pic of bottom painting Candlewin against the old jetty at Oasis Marina in Costa Rica on one of our many trips by there.
cheers, Greg
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Old 02-05-2014, 20:38   #32
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Re: Maintaining a Timber Boat

Hi Greg...

Nice photo, brings back a lot of memories of good times with you guys!

Jim
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Old 02-05-2014, 21:33   #33
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Re: Maintaining a Timber Boat

As far as maintaining a timber boat goes, our boat's construction puts her somewhere in between timber-only and grp. Her topsides and deck require paint, her companionway coaming, and about 7/8 of her interior is gloss varnish, and the rest is paint on epoxy-treated timber. [We have been told that the epoxy treatment makes the timber too hard for termites to be able to enter.] So, anyhow, she's strip plank, epoxy & glass in and out, but she has the external appearance of a modern-ish glass boat, if you're curious, see the photo on Jim's profile page to see what she looks like. One time there was a glass delamination on her skeg, and she got teredos before it was fixed.

So, zing comes the arrow okay Wotname, please explain to me how is she not a timber boat?

Ann
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Old 02-05-2014, 23:54   #34
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Re: Maintaining a Timber Boat

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
As far as maintaining a timber boat goes, our boat's construction puts her somewhere in between timber-only and grp. Her topsides and deck require paint, her companionway coaming, and about 7/8 of her interior is gloss varnish, and the rest is paint on epoxy-treated timber. [We have been told that the epoxy treatment makes the timber too hard for termites to be able to enter.] So, anyhow, she's strip plank, epoxy & glass in and out, but she has the external appearance of a modern-ish glass boat, if you're curious, see the photo on Jim's profile page to see what she looks like. One time there was a glass delamination on her skeg, and she got teredos before it was fixed.

So, zing comes the arrow okay Wotname, please explain to me how is she not a timber boat?

Ann
Hope you are wearing chain mail under your foulies

Allow me to try to explain another way. I believe that I wrote "I don't consider an epoxy saturated wood boat to be a timber boat in the sense of maintenance requirements". Perhaps I should have emphasised the "in the sense of maintenance requirements" and added "in the context of this thread".

It seems to me that the OP is enquiring about the potential maintenance requirements of timber boats in general in light of what others have stated about it generally being onerous. Again, to me, that suggests the maintenance requirements of the traditional wood boat because that is what most folk know (generalisation I know).

The epoxy saturated or encapsulated timber vessel, has to my mind, far less maintenance required than a carvel or other traditional construction methods. Certainly I maintain my epoxy / plywood boat far less than my previous NZ built carvel vessel. Both were / are a similar age - +40 years.

I agree that your vessel (and mine) has more maintenance requirements than a GRP vessel, but I do maintain than this is far less than what I believe the OP understands as a "Timber Boat".

If you don't agree, then perhaps we can agree to disagree .

And yes, I do consider I-2 to be a timber boat; especially outside the constraints of maintenance and the OP's question.

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Old 03-05-2014, 00:51   #35
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Re: Maintaining a Timber Boat

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Hope you are wearing chain mail under your foulies

Allow me to try to explain another way. I believe that I wrote "I don't consider an epoxy saturated wood boat to be a timber boat in the sense of maintenance requirements". Perhaps I should have emphasised the "in the sense of maintenance requirements" and added "in the context of this thread".

It seems to me that the OP is enquiring about the potential maintenance requirements of timber boats in general in light of what others have stated about it generally being onerous. Again, to me, that suggests the maintenance requirements of the traditional wood boat because that is what most folk know (generalisation I know).

The epoxy saturated or encapsulated timber vessel, has to my mind, far less maintenance required than a carvel or other traditional construction methods. Certainly I maintain my epoxy / plywood boat far less than my previous NZ built carvel vessel. Both were / are a similar age - +40 years.

I agree that your vessel (and mine) has more maintenance requirements than a GRP vessel, but I do maintain than this is far less than what I believe the OP understands as a "Timber Boat".

If you don't agree, then perhaps we can agree to disagree .

And yes, I do consider I-2 to be a timber boat; especially outside the constraints of maintenance and the OP's question.



Agree with Wotname. Strip plank, strip plank/cold mold, cold mold, and to a lesser degree diagonal planked boats are dimensionally stable, monocoque forms of construction which have more in common with the construction of a glass boat than they do a clinker or carvel planked traditional timber boat.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:39   #36
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Re: Maintaining a Timber Boat

Strip plank with epoxy/glass skins make it a composite boat. Very much lower maintenance than timber construction.
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:50   #37
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Lots of good info posted so far. I might add that deck construction has a lot to do with the quantity wooden boat maintenance. Any regular fresh water leaks can be quite damaging.

We're lucky to have a very low maintenance carvel planked boat built by an expert who spent his whole life in the business. In her first 23 years of life the only hull maintenance I'm aware of is painting, touch up, and replacing the hood end fasteners (the rest are copper riveted.). Some year, she'll want her galvy deadwood bolts replaced (he knew better, but funds were limited at points in the construction, rarely, thankfully.)

Of course, there's only about 1 sq ft of varnish outside the cabin and all the paint rests on an epoxy primer. Extensive use of locust, bronze, and unfinished teak keeps her very low maintenance. The aluminum mast doesn't hurt either. The maintenance issues of any boat, regardless of hull type, often come down to the details and care taking in her original construction and how she's been maintained since.
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:14   #38
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Re: Maintaining a Timber Boat

Hello again, I certainly agree with Marujo Sartugo in that the quality and considerations in construction have much to do with the maintenance and longevity of a wood boat. Our hull would have been more ding-resistant with mahogany planking than the softer red cedar, but that is what we could afford at the time. I wished that we had been more familiar with epoxies during the construction, but in the mid 70's on Vancouver Island they were largely an unknown. One of the single biggest changes we made to the upkeep of Candlewin was to change out the wooden varnished sticks for the 350 lb lighter alloy ones, beautifully painted in a light buff Awlgrip with white masthead.
One thing I acknowledge though, is that without a smattering of wooden ships about, the sea would be a boring place, more like used car lots,every model recognizable and available to those with the appropriate amount of funds.
Greg
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:37   #39
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Re: Maintaining a Timber Boat

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I'm sure you are correct concerning the potential for rot in both oak framing and cedar planking, Sabray... notwithstanding that, we built sturdy fishboats out of that material for close to 100 years in the PNW and I can attest that they are still afloat provided they received regular maintenance. It will be interesting to see if plastic boats last that long! Cheers, Phil

We used to coat the oak in red lead. Think that helps a lot. Used good black oak for butt blocks keel frames and stringers. Always beveled and allowed so water would not sit trapped. Species matters red oak is no good green oak white oak black oak much better. I would say black locust is near rot proof Purple Heart, teak are close.



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Old 03-05-2014, 15:05   #40
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Re: Maintaining a Timber Boat

Chamfering the frames helps a lot. Finding red lead paint is tough - expensive as well. I found a source of red lead powder and made my own paint - much cheaper. I also used a concoction of borate and antifreeze to treat exposed end grain. Effective fungus treatment. I was going to epoxy the open end grain but the shipwright I am working with said sealing it that way is the kiss of death for wood. We applied CPES to the inner plank surfaces. It limits water movement in and out of the wood. We aren't relying on swelling to seal the seams so we will seal the exterior planks we Interlux 2000e. Certainly not traditional but will help in the long run. Wouldn't folks 100 years ago have used modern techniques? They certainly did then.
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Old 03-05-2014, 18:08   #41
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Re: Maintaining a Timber Boat

Speaking of timber species and noting the OP is in Sydney Australia, he should keep in mind the availability of Huon pine planked vessels that are still going strong, especially further south in Tassie.

For those who aren't aware, Huon Pine is arguably the world's most rot / mould / fungus resistant timber.

Yes, you pay a premium for these beauties but if I was in the market for another traditional timber boat, I would be hard pressed to go past Huon pine if the funds stretched that far.
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Old 03-05-2014, 19:16   #42
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Re: Maintaining a Timber Boat

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Speaking of timber species and noting the OP is in Sydney Australia, he should keep in mind the availability of Huon pine planked vessels that are still going strong, especially further south in Tassie.

For those who aren't aware, Huon Pine is arguably the world's most rot / mould / fungus resistant timber.

Yes, you pay a premium for these beauties but if I was in the market for another traditional timber boat, I would be hard pressed to go past Huon pine if the funds stretched that far.



Don't forget the odd Kauri vessel around those parts, often diagonal planked.
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Old 03-05-2014, 22:49   #43
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Re: Maintaining a Timber Boat

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Don't forget the odd Kauri vessel around those parts, often diagonal planked.
Yes, Kauri is good, my mid 20th century carvel boat was Kauri planked back when real NZ Kauri was being used but Huon trumps Kauri .
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Old 04-05-2014, 02:02   #44
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Re: Maintaining a Timber Boat

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Yes, Kauri is good, my mid 20th century carvel boat was Kauri planked back when real NZ Kauri was being used but Huon trumps Kauri .
Oooohhh, don't let a Kiwi hear you saying that!

Jim
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Old 04-05-2014, 03:08   #45
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Re: Maintaining a Timber Boat

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Oooohhh, don't let a Kiwi hear you saying that!

Jim

Okey Dokey, let me re-phrase that:
Huon Pine is the Joker!
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