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Old 09-12-2013, 17:35   #1
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Main Shroud Replacement

One of the main shrouds on my Cal 39 has a couple of broken wires in it, and I plan to have the local marina replace it in the Spring. They have a dockside crane with a bosun's chair attached and can easily get at the top of the mast.

Can the shroud be replaced with the boat at the dock and the mast up, or does the mast need to come down? Obviously, it would be a lot cheaper if it can be done with the mast up. Please tell me what you think.

Thanks!
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Old 09-12-2013, 17:50   #2
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Re: Main Shroud Replacement

Standing rigging replacement with the mast standing is a common practice. Doesn't really even require a crane. One uses a halyard or two lead to an appropriate spot to help support the mast, disconnect the lower end of a shroud, then go up in a bosun's chair and disconnect the upper end and lower it down. The replacement shroud is installed by reversing the process. Repeat as many times as required, one wire at a time.

I've done this a few times on my own boats, and have made up the new rigging with mechanical terminals such as Sta-Lok or Norseman. One can save quite a lot of money by DIY, and it isn't very demanding of technical expertise.

Good luck,

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Old 09-12-2013, 18:09   #3
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Re: Main Shroud Replacement

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Repeat as many times as required, one wire at a time.

I've done this a few times on my own boats, and have made up the new rigging with mechanical terminals such as Sta-Lok or Norseman. One can save quite a lot of money by DIY, and it isn't very demanding of technical expertise.
This is my plan for March next year. Lots of good threads on it here on CF too. Just have to decide between sta-lok and norseman.

I would also ask the question, if one shroud has broken wires (I believe the term used on CF is meat-hooks) then surely this means the others are getting tired, so all should be inspected. Unless there was some specific event that caused the damage.

Matt
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Old 09-12-2013, 21:28   #4
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Re: Main Shroud Replacement

Have replaced all the shrouds and stays on my boat with the mast in place. Really easy to do by myself with the 'Top Climber' mast climbing rig. Easy to make up the wire mechanical terminals like Norseman or StaLok.

Unless there was some specific individual reason for the wire to fail like a hard bend at a terminal, would lead me to question all the other wire on the boat.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:38   #5
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Re: Main Shroud Replacement

The two above posts are quite correct: if one shroud has failed, it is very likely indeed that all standing rigging should (must?) be replaced. I should have mentioned this in my initial post, so thanks to Matt and Peter for bringing it up.

Jim
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:15   #6
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pirate Re: Main Shroud Replacement

Wot he/they just said^^^^^^^^
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:48   #7
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Re: Main Shroud Replacement

Someone once said that you can use galvanized wire instead of stainless and that it lasts just as long and is even stronger by size. Can this be true and is looks the main reason for stainless?
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:54   #8
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Re: Main Shroud Replacement

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Someone once said that you can use galvanized wire instead of stainless and that it lasts just as long and is even stronger by size. Can this be true and is looks the main reason for stainless?
Yes, actually it will last longer if you take care of it correctly.

You need to worm the wire first (Fill the valleys in the outside of the wire with cordage), which you do with the lay.
Then Parcel the wire (wrap it with cloth), again with the lay.
Serve the wire, (Wrap the whole thing with fine rope, from top to bottom).
Then you would need to use traditional splices for the ends instead of fittings as the wire needs to be protected there too.

After you are all done coat it in a good coat of Pine Tar!
If you keep up the tar, and fix anywhere the serving gets damaged, it should last you to will to your grandchildren.

However if you don't Tar it regularly, or let anything happen to the service, it is going to last a couple of years at best.

Guy
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Old 10-12-2013, 10:45   #9
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Re: Main Shroud Replacement

When I replaced my shrouds I went with die formed wire. I think it was about 20% stronger than regular wire for the same size.
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Old 10-12-2013, 11:00   #10
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Re: Main Shroud Replacement

I had my port, upper shroud pop off the mast once, while close hauled off Catalina Island in brisk afternoon winds. I hear a "plink", then heard something hit the deck and bounce overboard. I looked up and saw the shroud hanging down, the masthead bending to port. I immediately tacked, taking all load off the weak side, lowered the sails as quickly as possible, and motored into a protected cove near the Isthmus. Once secured, I went up the mast in the bos'n chair to discover the bolt that holds the tang and shroud had parted at the threads. Later investigation showed this to be crevice corrosion. I had to send off to Los Angeles, only twenty-six miles to the east, for a replacement bolt. Unfortunately, the thread side of the bolt hole is the side that that is the same size as the bolt, so this required me to remove the other side tang and upper shroud (which is the diameter of the compression post that keeps the mast from pinching when under load). To secure the masthead better while aloft, I simply used my halyards as substitute shrouds, winching them as tightly as possible. Then I had to punch out the bolt and compression tube from the threaded side. At least the compression tube wasn't "welded" onto the bolt, or I would have had to find a supplier for this as well. Now, whenever I pull someone's mast to install a radar or whatever, I routinely remove and replace all tang compression bolts and sleeves as a safeguard. The repair was easily done, once the new bolt arrived, and I learned some valuable lessons about rigging.
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:35   #11
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Re: Main Shroud Replacement

Can't get dyform wire anymore, you can only get compact strand. Dyfrom was made by navtec and is no longer being made.

The real numbers on compact strand are about the same as regular 1x19. However a number of the manufactures of mechanical terminals specifically state: "Not to be used with Compact Strand Wires".

Guy
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Old 10-12-2013, 13:02   #12
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Re: Main Shroud Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aikiguy View Post
Yes, actually it will last longer if you take care of it correctly.

You need to worm the wire first (Fill the valleys in the outside of the wire with cordage), which you do with the lay.
Then Parcel the wire (wrap it with cloth), again with the lay.
Serve the wire, (Wrap the whole thing with fine rope, from top to bottom).
Then you would need to use traditional splices for the ends instead of fittings as the wire needs to be protected there too.

After you are all done coat it in a good coat of Pine Tar!
If you keep up the tar, and fix anywhere the serving gets damaged, it should last you to will to your grandchildren.

However if you don't Tar it regularly, or let anything happen to the service, it is going to last a couple of years at best.

Guy
:-)
When you put it like that... I'm almost tempted to try it myself
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Old 10-12-2013, 13:48   #13
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Re: Main Shroud Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aikiguy View Post
Can't get dyform wire anymore, you can only get compact strand. Dyfrom was made by navtec and is no longer being made.

The real numbers on compact strand are about the same as regular 1x19. However a number of the manufactures of mechanical terminals specifically state: "Not to be used with Compact Strand Wires".

Guy
:-)
A couple of things...

Dyform was not made by Navtec, but by Bridon in the UK. Indeed, their website no longer lists the 1x19 wire we've been using for standing rigging, but some resellers still seem to list it... possibly erroneously.

But, the "real numbers" that I have seen do show Dyform as being circa 30 % stronger than the same diameter standard 1x19 316 wire. I suspect that the currently available "compact strand" wire shares this advantage. The Dyform also has lower stretch, and this has certainly been my experience with it (I can't really speak to its ultimate strength, for I have no way to measure it).

Both Sta-Lok and Norseman supply cones that work with Dyform wire forms; I have successfully used them for years. Can't speak about other terminals, for again I have no experience with them.

I'm sorry that Bridon has stopped manufacturing the wire, for having that assured source was a good reason to use it. Meant that one could be confident that it wasn't an Oriental knock-off. Drat!

And as for using galvo wire, well, I guess if one has a rig that tolerates a lot of stretch it may be an option. However, most modern rigs don't do well with the amount of stretch one gets with the wire forms available in galvo... I am sure that mine would not. Each to their own!

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 10-12-2013, 14:10   #14
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Re: Main Shroud Replacement

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Originally Posted by MapleSugarMan View Post
One of the main shrouds on my Cal 39 has a couple of broken wires in it, and I plan to have the local marina replace it in the Spring. They have a dockside crane with a bosun's chair attached and can easily get at the top of the mast.

Can the shroud be replaced with the boat at the dock and the mast up, or does the mast need to come down? Obviously, it would be a lot cheaper if it can be done with the mast up. Please tell me what you think.

Thanks!
I am all for saving money on boat items but rigging is not one of them.

I sail regular in the north sea and the last thing I need is to worry if the mast is going to stay up!

During my surveys I have also seen some horrible galvanized rigging, once the rust get in your in trouble so stick to Stainless steel my friend.

By the way I see no problems in replacing shrouds while afloat as long as the sea is flat and the boats well secured.!

11 year old Galvanised rigging
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Old 10-12-2013, 14:27   #15
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Re: Main Shroud Replacement

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11 year old Galvanised rigging
No worries, that'll buff out.
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