Luger Leeward Restoration Thread

[SkiprJohn]

Originally Posted by Dave Custer

You are correct! Bolts go up though the bottom with nuts on the interior.

The main reason is I need to replace the cheek boards on either sde of the housing. These boards are screwed in from the interior of the housing. I figured after 30-40 years the bedding / sealing compound would probably like to be replaced as well.

Ok, good. I took a look at our Leeward. It's in worse shape than yours by the way. It was donated to the YMCA many years ago and was given to us. No one has adopted it. Very sad!

I found out that one of our members has the original construction guide published by Luger so I'll get those and scan some of the centerboard trunk specifics. It won't be immediately but will get them to you.

kind regards,

John

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Dave Custer

I'm trying to track down some construction plans.

I know nothing of these boats, but maybe worth a shot to get on a boat building forum (or 2), a chance that as the plans / boats predate the internet that someone may have some tucked away in a drawer somewhere, used or not! I mention it as pretty much every (active) forum seems to have a few old hands who predate Noah and know all kinds of stuff...........

[Dave Custer]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

Ok, good. I took a look at our Leeward. It's in worse shape than yours by the way. It was donated to the YMCA many years ago and was given to us. No one has adopted it. Very sad!

I found out that one of our members has the original construction guide published by Luger so I'll get those and scan some of the centerboard trunk specifics. It won't be immediately but will get them to you.

kind regards,

John

OK thanks so much! I really appreciate your help. No rush at all. I've still got a few hundred years of grinding to do anyway.
I've been following several leads on construction plans but they are all long shots.

Grinding continues! I'm about 50% done at best! It's just REALLY slow!

[Dave Custer]

Oh yes!
New books!



I need to get my lazy can in the shop and work on some smithing stuff, but I'll definitely start thumbing pages when the work is done!

[Dave Custer]

More grinding........

Four stringers and half of the CB housing left.

Than starts sanding!

[SkiprJohn]

Well, I received the information from my friend about the Leeward. I'll have to sort through it to make some sense out of it. It was copied from a website which has been taken down so the copies are not that good. That was in 2006. I wish it were blueprints. The Luger Moorings site that you've seen about the centerboard might have someone to contact about more detailed instructions too.
Will let you know once I get a chance to study this stuff. I may just end up copying everything and stick it in the mail to you.
kind regards,

[Dave Custer]

More grinding. The centerboard is clear except for the bolts. All of the old glass from the stringers is gone. I'm down to bare hull on the floor now. There is a bit of glass forward under the deck that I need to clean out too.

[Dave Custer]

Alrighty!
Progress report!

The centerboard is out. I ground through the resin and glass matting and approximately 50 SS bolts holding the centerboard on, and removed it without much trouble. The original bedding compound did not have an iron grip and some gentle pressure with a pry bar succeeded in freeing the board. The CB housing halves also came apart easily, allowing me access to the screw holes that hold the cheek boards on. I will wait to take them off until I am ready to install the new ones, so that I can use the old ones as templates.

I have also finished reading the fiberglass boat repair manual. There was lots of great info in there and it answer some of my questions.
It did also create a few questions though.

One question I came across, and did not find an answer to, is this.

The book says you have polyester resin and epoxy resins. I says that you can use epoxy to repair polyester laminate, but you cannot use polyester to repair epoxy laminate.
The question is, is there a way to determine if your boat hull is laid up using epoxy or polyester?
If there is no way to determine what the original laminate is laid up with, I would assume that this means I will have to use epoxy resin instead polyester resin by default?

Input in this matter is appreciated.

I called a wooden boat repair place and asked about marine ply for reinstalling the deck stringers. He's got 3/4-inch Hydrotech for about $150 a sheet. (4x8) bummer is, I only need about a half a sheet.
However, we have furniture grade, kiln dried, white oak, rough sawn 1x material, and the ability to mill it down to the size and shape needed. I asked the guy if we could use it, and he said it would work fine, although it would be a bit more stiff than the ply.
Anyway, it costs me $1.35 a board foot, and I can use and pay for the exact amount I need.

I'm also going to try to take some measurements and figure up how much fiberglass and resin I need. I think I am going to put down one layer of CSM on the hull interior, before installing the stringers. I am also going to thicken up all hardware areas (chain plates, deck blocs, and cleats) as there are signs of stress at most of these areas.

The forward deck area is very thin CSM only and shows stress cracks all along the center stringer. I am going to remove the stringers here and put down some woven roving for strength and finish it off with a layer of CSM. then reinstall the stringers. I have not yet inspected the cabin top, but will probably stiffen it up around the mast step area.

I do have one last question, this time about backing plates.

Most all of my hardware (blocks, cleats, etc.) is backed up by 3/8-inch plywood, held in by a single layer of CSM and the hardware bolts.

I would like to remove these and replace them with larger stainless steel backing plates.
First question here is, is this a good idea?
Second question is, my steel yard sells scrap 304 SS by the pound. It is much cheaper this way and I can buy just what I need. However the scrap is pretty thin. (Less than an eight inch.) my question is, can I use two or three layers of this stainless as my backing plate, as apposed to a single thicker plate?

Thanks guys! I'll try to get some new pics up today sometime.

[SkiprJohn]

Glad you got as far as you did. I was going to send you a blowup of how the centerboard is put together but you already have it apart so know all about it.

You can use polyester on your boat because it was built with polyester. How can you tell the difference? By the smell. Grinding into epoxy doesn't smell like styrene like grinding into polyester does.

The stainless backing plates is a good idea and you can layer it. Shouldn't need it very thick though. The forces on your boat will not be tremendous.

The oak is a better choice for stringers but you could use nearly any wood if you keep the freshwater from standing in the boat with new cockpit drains.

Beware of adding a lot of weight by more layers of glass. One layer of CSM on the interior of the boat bottom is plenty. You don't need it up the interior sides. You don't want the boat to become too heavy and sluggish in the water. Do the minimum to strengthen the hull. You should be able to stand on the foredeck and cuddy without it caving in. Any stiffer than that is overkill. Reinforcing around the chainplates is good, but again, there is no reason to overdo it.

Sounds like you've made great progress and I wish the assembly instructions I have here were more complete. They just are very terrible and won't be of any value to you.

kind regards,

[Dave Custer]

Hey SkiprJohn I appreciate your help. No problem on the plans. Like you said, I've got it apart now, so I can pretty much figure how to put it back together.

I am worried about weight, like you suggested. There are some obvious spots that need reinforcement and repair, such as the forward cabin top and a few of the hardware mounts. The hull itself is not one of these areas. Of course it needs the stringers put back in, but as far as the laminate strength,i t is fine.
I may just revert to the original layout of putting down a base strip of CSM beneath each stringer, and then laying a layer over the top of the stringer to hold it in. I was just thinking the CSM had to be underneath the stringers anyway and by lining the bottom with it that would give me a more uniform and smoother interior. However, you won't even see any of it anyway, so it isn't a big deal.

Plus if I'm using oak instead of the old plywood, that is going to be a weight addition as well.

Let me run this by for thoughts. I really dislike the idea of stringers with a semi perminant deck screwed down to it. Now, earlier in this thread, we established that the stringers were structural and had to be reinstalled.
S the stringers are a must. What I am thinking of doing now though, is a sort of removable deck assembly. The deck will be in several pieces and will be held in by some sort of latch system. Instead of some sort of plank or plywood decking though, I am thinking of using one of the synthetic decking boards offered at big box stores like Lowes. The stuff at Lowes is called ChoiceDek and is rated for underwater use. When the sailing day is over, the decking can be unlatched, cleaned off outside of the boat, and then put back in. In the mean time, it would allow access to the hull beneath, allowing easy cleaning and drying.
Any thoughts or ideas along this line?

[Dave Custer]

OK first some pictures.
Overview minus the CB housing.


The CB housing laid aside.


Ok now for more questions.
First of all, both the port and starboard chain plates are a little worn. The picture shows it well. Someone used incorrect turnbuckle hardware on the shrouds.
My question is, should these be replaced or are they still ok? The metal is solid with no cracks. The only thing is the hole has been wallowed out some.


My second question is about cloth and resin. I looked over the repair areas, took some measurements, and figured up how much cloth I think I need. I am thinking of doing all CSM for simplicity. The stress cracks in the areas that need structural repair are small and sparce. If I understand the research I have done thus far, a few layers of CSM in these areas should provide enough added support to fix the problem areas. I believe most of the stressed areas are due to over tightened shrouds, but I want to strengthen these areas so they are no longer a problem.
So I figured up enough cloth to do one layer on the bottom of the boat, glass in all of the new stringers, strengthen the forward deck, strengthen the cabin cuddy/mast step, glass the new seat facings, and add a layer to the various deck hardware attachments. The only thing I feel is absolutely not necessary is the entire lining of the interior bottom of the hull. I think this will help add strength and finish to the boat though. This accounts for about 25% of my fiberglass figures.

I came up with about 26 square yards of 1.5 oz CSM. The website I am looking at recommends a gallon of polyester resin per 3 square yards of fabric.
In other words, buying in even amounts, I am looking at needing 10 gallons of resin.

To me this borders on insane. Have I done some figuring wrong? Is the coverage recommendation I've read a crazy underestimate of coverage per gallon?
Or does it really take that much, and I'm just that clueless?

Next question is, a wooden boat builder recommended I prime all wood parts with resin before glassing over them. He was referring to epoxy resin. Can you use polyester resin in the same way?

Last question is, the original fairing compound for the screw holes all needs to be dug out and replaced. It is noticeably cracked and worn out. I've read that bondo does a fine job above and bellow the waterline for this. Is this true?


Thanks for all of your input!

[SkiprJohn]

I think your calculation might be a bit off. There are 9 square feet in a square yard. 234 square feet is a lot of area.
Your wallowed out chainplates don't need to be changed yet but when rigging make certain you put something there to take up the gap caused by the oversized hole and keep an eye on them.
I'd use painted pieces of marine ply to make up your removable cockpit sole but if you can find something strong enough and waterproof at Lowes then go for it. Regular ply will start to delaminate sooner than marine ply.
You're doing great.

[Dave Custer]

I'm trying to refigure the glass. Not much luck so far, but we will see!

[Dave Custer]

I brought the glass needed down to a bit.
I'm getting mostly CSM and also a little 1708 glass for some of the more structural areas. I also got five gallons do resin, (supplier's recommendation for the amount of glass I ordered,) an aluminum roller, and some disposable brushes.

I need to pick up some CPES still to use on the stringers. It is available locally from a wooden boat restoration company.

[Dave Custer]

Update! All interior prep grinding / sanding is done! I found a semi-major repair area on the port forward quarter. It was probably 6-inches square. From the inside it looks like a solid quality repair, but I'll wait till I sand the paint off the outside to determine that for sure.
The next thing I need to do is remove the wooden cheek pieces from the CB housing sides so I can start sanding down the CB housing. progress is a wonderful thing.

On the downside, my dewalt angle grinder died while sanding today. I can't really complain though. I've had it for maybe a year or a year and a half. Admittedly I'm not easy on a grinder. Until recently it was my main stock removal tool in the shop. (Until I built me a belt sander.) I really dig into the steel with my angle grinders.