Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-07-2013, 13:32   #16
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: Luger Leeward Restoration Thread

Check the flexibility of the boat bottom before eliminating the stringers. If it seems very flexible then the stringers were there for stiffness. You don't want the bottom flexible enough to crack the gelcoat.

Atoll has made some good suggestions and comments.
__________________

__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 07:21   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kentucky
Boat: Luger, 16 foot
Posts: 63
Images: 2
Re: Luger Leeward Restoration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
i would not worry too much about replacing the stiffners as they were probably only for attaching the flooring to,assuming the hull layup is of a suitable thickness.

the center board casing will definitly require some cross bracing.

you might want to replace the heavy foam bouyancy with,water tight seats in the back,and a water tight compartment in the cuddy.

polyester resin will work if area to be worked on is ground out throughly,though epoxy works better if there is a lot of humidity,slower to work with and a lot more expensive,but 100% bonding is more or less guarenteed,also care is needed as epoxy is nasty stuff if in skin contact or inhalation.

fitting a drain plug near the center board is a better idea if the boat is stored not under cover on the hard.

biaxial cloth is easier to work with than woven rovings,though for a small boat like yours csm alone is probably sufficent.

if using epoxy use collodial silicon and microlite fillers for filleting and filling,adds enourmous amount of strenth to bonds.

another tip,tape off all your topside gelcoated surfaces with plastic and cardboard,will save a lot of work later cleaning up spills and dings,grinder marks and sticky fingers!

Thanks for the info! You are referring to this stuff when you say biaxial cloth, right? 12 or 17 oz for structural repairs? 12 oz. and 17 oz. Double Bias Cloth

What would be suitable thickness on the hull? It was flexing quite a bit (to my eye) on just my 2x4 cradle boards. I put some more supports to distribute the weight while I work on it. How much flex is acceptable?

I may just conjure up some way to make the decking removable. Much like a wooden hatch that fits in a frame. That would give me the stiffeners, a deck to walk on while sailing, and still give me access "bellow decks" for cleaning and inspection.

I like the idea of a drain plug by the center board. I'm going to have to do something about the drain plug, because at it's current placement, the boat will hold at least an inch of water.

I'll look into those fillers too. I need something to fill all of the screw holes, so that I can reinstall the seats, cuddy top, and trim. I suppose the information on products to use for this will be in one or both books mentioned by SkiprJohn. (Both of those were ordered yesterday off of Amazon.)
I hope there is also some good info on drain plug installation. I may not be too bright, but I'm guessing a hole saw, PVC pipe, and window caulk are not the proper method!

I've got quite a bit of heavy grade black plastic from some construction projects, so I'll be sure to cover everything when it comes time to fiberglass and stuff.

As a side note:
I don't know if I've mentioned that I got a motor with the boat. Well I did. It is an Arrow made in Canada during the late 70's - early 80's, by Triton. The owner said it wouldn't crank last time he tried it, two years ago. My younger brother (14) likes tinkering in small engine mechanics. (Diagnosed, disassembled, and successfully fixed a weed-eater and chainsaw, with nothing more than a few youtube videos.) Anyway, we've done a little work on it and got it firing good. We just cleaned out the carb, but then I took the lower unit down. It needs a new impeller, which should be a real joy to find. I also flushed the lower unit out and got some marine lower unit oil for it. However, no more progress until I find a comparable impeller.
I believe the motor is either 4 or 5.5 HP.
__________________

__________________
"It's not the fact that you're dead that counts, but only how did you die."
Dave Custer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 07:31   #18
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Luger Leeward Restoration Thread

Yep. Stick to those stringers! Very nice project!

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 08:28   #19
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Luger Leeward Restoration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Custer View Post
Thanks for the info! You are referring to this stuff when you say biaxial cloth, right? 12 or 17 oz for structural repairs? 12 oz. and 17 oz. Double Bias Cloth

What would be suitable thickness on the hull? It was flexing quite a bit (to my eye) on just my 2x4 cradle boards. I put some more supports to distribute the weight while I work on it. How much flex is acceptable?

I may just conjure up some way to make the decking removable. Much like a wooden hatch that fits in a frame. That would give me the stiffeners, a deck to walk on while sailing, and still give me access "bellow decks" for cleaning and inspection.

I like the idea of a drain plug by the center board. I'm going to have to do something about the drain plug, because at it's current placement, the boat will hold at least an inch of water.

I'll look into those fillers too. I need something to fill all of the screw holes, so that I can reinstall the seats, cuddy top, and trim. I suppose the information on products to use for this will be in one or both books mentioned by SkiprJohn. (Both of those were ordered yesterday off of Amazon.)
I hope there is also some good info on drain plug installation. I may not be too bright, but I'm guessing a hole saw, PVC pipe, and window caulk are not the proper method!

I've got quite a bit of heavy grade black plastic from some construction projects, so I'll be sure to cover everything when it comes time to fiberglass and stuff.

As a side note:
I don't know if I've mentioned that I got a motor with the boat. Well I did. It is an Arrow made in Canada during the late 70's - early 80's, by Triton. The owner said it wouldn't crank last time he tried it, two years ago. My younger brother (14) likes tinkering in small engine mechanics. (Diagnosed, disassembled, and successfully fixed a weed-eater and chainsaw, with nothing more than a few youtube videos.) Anyway, we've done a little work on it and got it firing good. We just cleaned out the carb, but then I took the lower unit down. It needs a new impeller, which should be a real joy to find. I also flushed the lower unit out and got some marine lower unit oil for it. However, no more progress until I find a comparable impeller.
I believe the motor is either 4 or 5.5 HP.
on a hull like that you probably have about 4mm thickness,so some stringers might be in order,though if you put in the watertight seats in the aft as i sugested this will add stiffening,as would a couple of longditudinal stiffners midway between the centerline and the seat base.

most marine chandlers will be able to supply ready made pvc threaded 2 part bung and surface fitting,use a poyluretane sealer such as sikaflex 291 or simmilar.

this free guide for west system will give you all the info on fillers and filleting techniques etc

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/...k%20061205.pdf

sorry couldnt open the link for biaxial cloth,but probably go for the lighter stuff as it is extremly strong,lays nice and flat,so should not need csm on top.

i have a 20 ft day sailer,a signet 20,and found an engine to be not really nessacary unless no wind,i would suggest getting a good pair of oars, and rowlocks,shoud row fairly easily with a thwart seat at the aft end of the centerboard casing.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 20:29   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kentucky
Boat: Luger, 16 foot
Posts: 63
Images: 2
Re: Luger Leeward Restoration Thread

So I spent some more time grinding today. (Shock, surprise, amazement.) I spend enough time on grinders and stuff in my regular work.

Anyway! Here are some pictures I took.

This is the side of the centerboard that has not been ground at all. Someone attempted a repair job here. They poured large amounts of resin all over the place and it is thick and very tough to grind.


Here is the side I've been grinding on. You can see there is a lip at the base of the centerboard housing. This lip is through bolted with the nuts on the interior. You can see the shiny ends in this picture. This struck me as odd, because the maker then attempted to fiberglass over these nuts and bolt ends that were sticking up. Perhaps this is standard issue methodology, but it looked pretty poor to me.



This is odd. I've never seen anything like it. It looks/feels like aluminum, but it is completely rotted. It is certainly not wood, and is definitely something metallic. This is a plate that the centerboard pivot bolt goes through. There are two, one for each side of the housing.



As a side note, this is the repair area forward.



Here is a closer look at the drain plug!



And here is a look at the motor.
__________________
"It's not the fact that you're dead that counts, but only how did you die."
Dave Custer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 01:46   #21
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: Luger Leeward Restoration Thread

Boats.net - New and Used Boats for Sale, Outboard Boat Motors, and Discount Outboard Boat Parts is a good company to call about outboard parts. If you get lucky maybe a Johnson or Evinrude or old Mercury water pump will work in your outboard. Not a hard job to change it. I've just done my Johnson and am now working on the club's Evinrude. It, however, needed new seals in the gear housing so has taken me a lot longer.

For your drainplug. Drill the hole in the side of centerboard trunk the outside diameter size of a 3/4" pvc threaded nipple. Use a marine caulking and install it. Sikaflex or Boat Life or 3M are good choices. Make certain what you buy is compatible with plastic. Some products aren't. Get a screw on cap for it and you have a new drain plug. Just make certain when you install your pipe that it will not interfere with your raising or lowering the centerboard.

That outboard almost looks like it is aircooled with the fins on there. In that case it doesn't need a waterpump. See if you can download some info on your engine.

kind regards,
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 09:30   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kentucky
Boat: Luger, 16 foot
Posts: 63
Images: 2
Re: Luger Leeward Restoration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post


That outboard almost looks like it is aircooled with the fins on there. In that case it doesn't need a waterpump. See if you can download some info on your engine.

kind regards,

The info on my motor that I did find, said it is air cooled. (I found a number of forum posts and websites from other owners, that did not reveal much info.)

However, my broth-in-law said the piece was a water pump impeller as soon as he saw it.
I have been trying to find online manuals, specs, factory parts breakdown sheets, anything. No luck so far. All I have found is a list of what models were made in what years. I don't have a model number, so that's even "more than less than unhelpful."

Hopefully I'll make some respectable progress with the grinder today!
__________________
"It's not the fact that you're dead that counts, but only how did you die."
Dave Custer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 14:56   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Luger Leeward Restoration Thread

the motor is definitely air cooled!,looks like an american pirated version of the 4hp briggs and stratton lawnmower engine!

the leg looks the same as one of the old johnson/evinrude 4hp legs,in which case there may be an impellor housing,but my guess is it is not plumbed in,or has no impellor in it,as the motor is not designed for water cooling.

center board casing has obviously been molded seperately and pushed up through a cut out in the hull,then glued and screwed in place,
if you want to remove the casing,you will need to turn the boat upside down and run a thin (1.5mm) cutting disc between the hull and the flange,then use a mallet to seperate the two parts,fill the holes with epoxy,after punching out the bits of screw in the glass.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 16:42   #24
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: Luger Leeward Restoration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
the motor is definitely air cooled!,looks like an american pirated version of the 4hp briggs and stratton lawnmower engine!

the leg looks the same as one of the old johnson/evinrude 4hp legs,in which case there may be an impellor housing,but my guess is it is not plumbed in,or has no impellor in it,as the motor is not designed for water cooling.

center board casing has obviously been molded seperately and pushed up through a cut out in the hull,then glued and screwed in place,
if you want to remove the casing,you will need to turn the boat upside down and run a thin (1.5mm) cutting disc between the hull and the flange,then use a mallet to seperate the two parts,fill the holes with epoxy,after punching out the bits of screw in the glass.
Again, it would be really good if you could find a set of leeward plans. Then you'd know exactly how it was put together.

That aluminum plate is really corroded. That can happen.

kind regards,
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 16:47   #25
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: Luger Leeward Restoration Thread

Seen this one yet?

The Luger Sailboat Mooring - Leeward Centerboards
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 20:36   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kentucky
Boat: Luger, 16 foot
Posts: 63
Images: 2
Re: Luger Leeward Restoration Thread

I'm trying to track down some construction plans.

Do ou suppose an '87 luger catalog would be a good purchase? It's got the Leeward listed, but I don't know what sort of pertinent info it would contain.
Vintage 1987 Luger Boat Kits Boat Brochure Mailing 48 Pages Excellent Condition | eBay
__________________
"It's not the fact that you're dead that counts, but only how did you die."
Dave Custer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 20:42   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kentucky
Boat: Luger, 16 foot
Posts: 63
Images: 2
Re: Luger Leeward Restoration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
Yup! I came across that while searching the web for info. It show the fiberglass sing around the base, but no bolts. This makes more sense to me because protruding bolts prevent a good glassing job. It just means I'll have to take care of a on of bolt holes.

The centerboard actually sits in from the inside with the lip resting on the interior of the hull. No need to cut anything. Just grind off the glass surrounding it as well as the bolts.. I just wonder what sort of bedding compound they used! Lol may have to cut that!
__________________
"It's not the fact that you're dead that counts, but only how did you die."
Dave Custer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 04:55   #28
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Luger Leeward Restoration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Custer View Post
Yup! I came across that while searching the web for info. It show the fiberglass sing around the base, but no bolts. This makes more sense to me because protruding bolts prevent a good glassing job. It just means I'll have to take care of a on of bolt holes.

The centerboard actually sits in from the inside with the lip resting on the interior of the hull. No need to cut anything. Just grind off the glass surrounding it as well as the bolts.. I just wonder what sort of bedding compound they used! Lol may have to cut that!
grind the tops of the bolts off,but try not to damage the flange,you might be able to lever it off if a flexible compound was used.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 11:32   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: Luger Leeward Restoration Thread

From what I remember by looking at the bottom of our club's Leeward many years ago is that the machine bolts go up from the the bottom and have nuts on the top? I'm going down there today and will see if I can roll it over to have another look. If the sealant they used was 3M 5200 you may have to use a sawzall. Just take care not to destroy the flange. If the sealant was polysulfide you might just be able to pry it apart. If they used resin then definitely it'll require the sawzall with a thin blade.
Again, why are you removing the centerboard trunk? Sorry I'm not keeping up with your energy.
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 12:18   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kentucky
Boat: Luger, 16 foot
Posts: 63
Images: 2
Re: Luger Leeward Restoration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
From what I remember by looking at the bottom of our club's Leeward many years ago is that the machine bolts go up from the the bottom and have nuts on the top? I'm going down there today and will see if I can roll it over to have another look. If the sealant they used was 3M 5200 you may have to use a sawzall. Just take care not to destroy the flange. If the sealant was polysulfide you might just be able to pry it apart. If they used resin then definitely it'll require the sawzall with a thin blade.
Again, why are you removing the centerboard trunk? Sorry I'm not keeping up with your energy.
You are correct! Bolts go up though the bottom with nuts on the interior.

The main reason is I need to replace the cheek boards on either sde of the housing. These boards are screwed in from the interior of the housing. I figured after 30-40 years the bedding / sealing compound would probably like to be replaced as well.
__________________

__________________
"It's not the fact that you're dead that counts, but only how did you die."
Dave Custer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
restoration

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:50.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.