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Old 13-11-2013, 11:38   #16
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Re: Lost Another Rudder!

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
It really brings back up the question of whether most spade rudder designs are robust enough or offshore work. 6-8 ft seas and 20 knots of wind... really? I mean a boat needs to be much more forgiving than that.... Whats the count on failed rudders ....3?
I know of no spade rudder , that unless already damaged would fail in those conditions . Its simply not the full story

dave
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Old 13-11-2013, 12:14   #17
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Re: Lost Another Rudder!

Another characteristic of a bluewater boat: the rudder stays on.
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Old 13-11-2013, 23:56   #18
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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I know of no spade rudder , that unless already damaged would fail in those conditions . Its simply not the full story dave
True... The wind may have been worse before this call where he was discussing these conditions, and if he was bobbing around with no steerage or sails it would be uncomfortable. Still, a spade rudder is much less stress tolerant in open sea conditions; after all, rudders go through a lot of stress. Years of sailing, with all of the inevitable shock loads - maybe even groundings - can lead to a failure. The production boats (mine included) seem to have a rudder construction that is "under-engineered" for blue-water.

Maybe that is what we are seeing with the recent failures. After all, it is just a steel post holding everything together.
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Old 14-11-2013, 00:05   #19
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20kts and 6 to 8 ft seas and no rudder would be very uncomfortable I would think. You don't usually go to sea expecting this.
Surely those are pretty modest conditions for any bit of open water?
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Old 14-11-2013, 05:09   #20
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Re: Lost Another Rudder!

Quartering seas and unbalanced sails can put a lot of pressure on the helm, even in 20 kts and 6-8 ft seas. Many boats in those rallies set the autopilot and sit back for the ride. The helm can become unbalanced and the helmsman would never know it. One Caribbean 1500 that I participated in (2006, if I recall correctly) had three boats lose rudders and several autopilots burn out (in much heavier weather).

That's why I don't use the autopilot in situations like that. I like to be able to feel how the boat is doing and tweak the sails as necessary. Don't know if that was the issue in the Salty Dawg, but it may have been.
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Old 14-11-2013, 07:32   #21
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Re: Lost Another Rudder!

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I know of no spade rudder , that unless already damaged would fail in those conditions . Its simply not the full story

dave
True dat! But I'll wager that most of these rudder losses were spades.
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Old 14-11-2013, 08:04   #22
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One would think if you have a spade rudder, Like I do. You would simply invest in a emergency tiller system. You wont win any races with it but it would definitely get you to a safe harborage. Glad to hear that they all made it to safety
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Old 14-11-2013, 08:49   #23
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Re: Lost Another Rudder!

Thats simple, spade rudders are linked to the boat by the rudder stock shaft, corrosion, impacts,or previously grounding or other kind of damage and the rudder is compromised, not necesary a previous Bang !! simple electrolisis or corrosion at the shaft and the rudder can be gone! glu glu...
My rudder is suported by a overkill bronze heel plate or shoe plate, in case of shaft snap or disabled im thinking in drill a hole at the bottom edge of the rudder , the rudder is very strong , filled inside with solid resin, no foam , and with a couple of long lines able to steer the boat with the cockpit winches and some blocks, simple.... in theory.....
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Old 14-11-2013, 09:03   #24
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I've researched a few emergency rudder options today with no clear avenue for a simple, efficient temporary fix....

One of the clever ones I seen was mentioned to use you spinnaker pole, although I didn't grasp the concept....rock science is not my expertise.
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Old 14-11-2013, 09:22   #25
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Re: Lost Another Rudder!

Pardon my complete ignorance, but wouldn't a spinnaker pole and something as rigged up as a hatch cover lashed to it maybe give you enough for steerage under power? Or is this just not enough?
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Old 14-11-2013, 09:34   #26
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True dat! But I'll wager that most of these rudder losses were spades.
Yes sure In a skeg hung all that might happen is the shaft disconnects from the internal structure , the result is not dissimilar however

Dave
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Old 14-11-2013, 09:36   #27
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Pardon my complete ignorance, but wouldn't a spinnaker pole and something as rigged up as a hatch cover lashed to it maybe give you enough for steerage under power? Or is this just not enough?
In my experience it will not work where the rudder goes missing and its difficult to hold together for any length of time

Dave
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Old 14-11-2013, 09:43   #28
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Re: Lost Another Rudder!

I have a fiberglass repair kit on board,I think I could make a rudder that would work "ok" from some spare parts and a door or some such thing if I had to..wouldnt work to well on a lee shore..
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Old 14-11-2013, 10:01   #29
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Re: Lost Another Rudder!

I don't mean to be a wise guy on this subject, but one of the primary traits for a future boat when we went yacht shopping three years ago, was for a full skeg hung rudder to hopefully, avoid this issue. So far, it's worked... Unlike the brand new Beneteau docked next to us in Gibraltar which had a failure within the first month out and a Hanse that was less than 6 months old in Cartegena.
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Old 14-11-2013, 13:15   #30
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Re: Lost Another Rudder!

I'm sure the $100,000s of price difference between Oyster and production has something to do with it too.
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