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Old 15-05-2016, 12:19   #1
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Looking for advice on a major refit

Hello all! I'm new to the board and to sailing for that matter. I own a restoration/hot rod shop in the Dallas , Tx area and I know the time and expense it takes to make anything new again. I have a few questions to ask and see if I can get some input. Any help is appreciated.

1. The boat is in Pampano Florida and I'm thinking of moving it to Galveston for the refit. This boat needs attention everywhere, think full rebuild. Would it be better to stay in Florida for the rebuild? Seems there may be more industry and labor geared to blue water cruisers on the east coast rather than the gulf.

2. Can anyone recommend a good contractor for the work needed? I need a full interior, wiring, mechanical, and cosmetic repairs. We want to cruise the boat are not looking to day sail or stay on the coast.

3. If I stay in Florida what is a good marina to station the boat at.

4. If the boat goes to Galveston are there any crews that can get the boat to Galveston for a reasonable cost. The plan I had is to De-mast and motor across the canal to fort meyers and stay in the ICW to Texas.

The boat is a 39 foot corbin double ender. The motor starts right up, but I can't attest to the integrity of the system. I would like to hear some "this is what I would do " from experienced voices. Thanks for any input!
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Old 16-05-2016, 14:19   #2
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Re: Looking for advice on a major refit

What is your budget for this? The work you are talking about having done will probably (very probably) top out way over the cost to buy a boat in much better condition. Yes, there are lots of marine businesses who would love to take on this project, and who would do a great job, but my God the cost would be sky high.
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Old 16-05-2016, 15:01   #3
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Re: Looking for advice on a major refit

The way I see it is the same way I see cars. It's better in my mind to buy a project/boat and build it out the way I want. I've seen countless customers come through my shop that have bought their dream car that they or a third party inspected only to find that it needs a complete overhaul or shady work repaired.
Corbin sailboats were sold as hulls only and the customer would finish out the interior themselves. I bought the boat for 7k and now can afford to build it out how i see fit with my oversight. I figured that I will have 80 to 110k in work if I contract the majority of it out. This will put me in a boat designed around our needs as a family wanting to voyage or round the world. I'm happy to do so.
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Old 16-05-2016, 15:03   #4
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Re: Looking for advice on a major refit

Most boats I looked at were about 30 to 60k in supposed ready to sail shape. All looked like they needed cosmetic repairs and refit to get them ready for the long haul. Who knows what i would find as I began to really dig deep.
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Old 16-05-2016, 15:03   #5
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Re: Looking for advice on a major refit

For a job this large I would seriously consider moving the boat to Trinidad or South America. The cost of the delivery would likely be paid back in the reduced labor costs... But I am with VJM, this could easily exceed the price of a boat in good shape, it might even get close to the cost of a new boat depending on what needs to be done.
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Old 16-05-2016, 15:08   #6
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Re: Looking for advice on a major refit

The cost of new maybe, but I don't think it will be laid up like a tank. Also I can spread the cost of the repairs over one year. I can't get a loan for nothin' right now, even with ok credit, steady 16 year home ownership, and a business ower for 11 years. So I don't think I can get a new boat and I personally don't want new. Maybe it's just me.
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Old 16-05-2016, 15:22   #7
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Re: Looking for advice on a major refit

I wouldn't go into a "major refit" on a boat expecting to pay for the labor rather than to do most myself. But of course it depends on what the refit involves.
Often it can mean any of, or all of:
- rebuild/new engine
- rudder repair/rebuild
-new deck coring,
-tank removal/replace (which may mean cutting some of the boat interior apart)
-mast refurbish and painting,
-new standing and running rigging,
-new sails,
-painting the bottom, deck and topsides etc.
That will usually mean far more than the boat is worth if you have to pay to have it done.
Get it nearby either way as you cant trust what's being done on the boat and need to act as a general contractor inspecting what's going on every day or two.
If you can itemize what the boat needs we can probably help more. If the boat needs most of what I said above don't pay much at all for it... it's nearly a give away.
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Old 16-05-2016, 15:23   #8
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Re: Looking for advice on a major refit

We're doing this in Indiantown Fl.... Take a look at our blog. If it's just you, take a look at Craigslist for a warehouse in central Florida with a door width wide enough to fit the boat. We pay $600 a month to be in the DIY yard here, but for around $700 we could have been in an air-conditioned warehouse with free electricity and office with restroom. Work would have gone much faster as everything is a weather delay, but my wife did not want the isolation of being in an industrial complex.

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Old 16-05-2016, 15:26   #9
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Re: Looking for advice on a major refit

I don't think there is any substitute for being directly involved with a major refit close enough for you to get to it regularly. You will never, ever be able to spec out the refit to an outfit and expect them to do it just like you envision it in your mind. Some of that will be cosmetic and some of it might be structural. There are always major decisions to be made that were not anticipated at the start and the refitter will need to get your opinion and you will have to make some tradeoff decisions. You might be able to get the "work" done cheaper in S. America, but the work done may not have any relationship to what you want, or need, except that you will pay for it. I suspect you can relate to that in your car business.

Just my opinion from working in a full boatyard for several years, doing the electrical part of it, and watching how it played out with the customers and the owners. Some work is pretty easy to spec out, e.g. make the diesel run, replace hoses, new sails, new rigging, etc. But even there there will be some decisions to be made for sails even. The most important thing is to find a boatyard with all-around skills and a bulletproof reputation.

Good luck. It will be an interesting learning experience for you. You probably want to bone up on the major systems on boats before you start so you can understand some of the lingo.
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Old 16-05-2016, 15:30   #10
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Re: Looking for advice on a major refit

How it works is this:
Negotiate the best price after evaluating the whole boat. Make a list and do it twice.
Sea trial and have the boat surveyed.
From the survey list get yard prices for each part of the work.
Renegotiate before you accept the boat. You might start out at $35000 and find $20K of work needed. My experience is that $20k of work will actually become up to $40k by the time the yard gets done.
Not trying to discourage at all, just go in with open eyes.... good luck!
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Old 16-05-2016, 15:58   #11
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Re: Looking for advice on a major refit

I had a marine business. I think you will have much more $ in this boat than most ocean capable boats would cost. Could be double or more. There are good and bad yards. Recommendations don't always prove out because some people think a good yard charges less than other yards and a bad yard charges more than other yards. They don't understand what is being repaired or how the repair is made. Most yards know how to get a vessel past a surveyor. Some with skillful repairs and others with good cosmetics. If you're not around checking the progress, you'll probably cover their monthly expenses weather any work is done or not.
Also, don't get a house carpenter. There are many rebuilds done that don't hold up because of the materials, paint, caulking, fasteners and so on. House builders usually aren't any good even if you stand over them.
You're looking at spending $100 grand or more on a boat that may never be worth $50 grand. Since you have a business and are paying cash as you go, it sounds you're trying to hide income that comes in as cash. It's not worth the final reckoning. And I don't work for the government.
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Old 16-05-2016, 16:17   #12
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Re: Looking for advice on a major refit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
it sounds you're trying to hide income that comes in as cash. It's not worth the final reckoning. And I don't work for the government.
Sorry, I must have missed the part where he asked for financial/tax/moral advice.
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Old 16-05-2016, 17:58   #13
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Re: Looking for advice on a major refit

Funjohnson I'll take a look thanks. I'll be starting my blog probably through Instagram soon. It'll be fun to watch your progress.

Lepke, wow. I'll just going along with the idea that you meant well.

No you see I have a plan and I focus intently before I start. Then I have fun during the ups and downs. I was taken from my family at about 3 or 4. Mom had some mental issues and she tried to fight for us in court but was shot and paralyzed tell she died 15 years later. I was put in the system and lived with a family for 3 years. Along came a couple that should have never adopted anyone. That mom died when I was 13 from cancer.The family fell apart and I wound up in the streets for 6 years. I was doped out of my mind during this time and was an idiot. I never went to high school because I didn't have a place to shower. I had my first child with a girl I met before dropping out of 9th grade and I decided it was time to get of my butt and signed on to Job Corp. There I learned welding and practiced 6 hours a day almost all year long for two years. The plan was go to Avondale shipyards in Louisiana and weld steel boats for the government; instead I became a body man at a collision shop. After paying my dues for 10 years I opened up my own restoration / hot Rod shop. I then spent 11 years paying my dues being a business owner. Through all these years I was fascinated with woodenboats and I bought plans for a haven 12 1/2 but realized that the cost was prohibitive at the time. So I bought some old beat up cars from the 30s. Over a period of years I have built up a 1940 Ford truck, a 1934 Ford 5 window coupe, a 1931 Ford coupe, a 1927 Ford coupe, a 1937 dodge coupe, and a 1939 dodge coupe. I worked a little here and a little there. Each are in different stages of completion with two almost done. Each will sell between 40 and 65k when done. Each will have cost me about 15K absorbed over a period of time going through my shop. These cars will pay for the complete refit of this boat and then some. All taxes and what's owed to Caesar will be paid to Cesar. then with the ongoing business concern, my house for rent, and a couple more cars to sell, my family and I will step onto our boat and go sailing.

Thanks
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Old 16-05-2016, 18:08   #14
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Re: Looking for advice on a major refit

I agree on the oversight. I'll keep it state side. I did a lot of calling today and I believe I found a shipping company to take it out of Florida to Galveston, Tx. This way I can visit as often as I like.
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Old 17-05-2016, 17:57   #15
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Re: Looking for advice on a major refit



Looks like a nice boat for 7000.00 if it's in any kind of reasonable shape...
do you have any pictures?

The ballast alone (if it's lead) is worth more than the purchase price...

If the boat is complete and not trashed, you should easily be able to accomplish your goal for well under 100,000, especially if you do a lot of the work yourself, and if the hardware, masts and running gear are in good shape.

It would seem to make sense to start talking around to people from say New Orleans to maybe Corpus to see if you can find a good DIY yard that also has their own mechanical/construction/refit services before you begin the haul. Regional prices vary enormously .
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