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Old 31-10-2015, 20:55   #1
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Lofrans' windlass

I have a loran windlass, gipsy drum, mod. Airon, went to lover they chain and it was wedged between the chain cover and the drum. Got it free after taking the bolts out and removing the stripper. Now the windlass will not I gage and drop the anchor chain, but it will bring it up very easily. You push the down switch, the motor rotates, if you have a winch, you can turn the drum and it lowers the chain. Take the winch out it might turn another 8th of a turn then stop and the motor keeps running until you release the switch. Pull the chain up and it works fine. Any ideas on what is wrong? Ideas on how to fix?


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Old 31-10-2015, 21:07   #2
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Re: Lofrans' windlass

The cones might be stuck. Take it all apart or get he capstan free, try again.
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Old 01-11-2015, 04:16   #3
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Re: Lofrans' windlass

I have a diagram with the parts list. Does the cone go by another name? Never taken the windlass apart before.


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Old 01-11-2015, 04:19   #4
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Lofrans' windlass

Another question. Can you get to the cone without unbolting the entire windlass. Like on a winch, you can dismantle and remove the drum without taking the winch off the deck.


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Old 01-11-2015, 10:00   #5
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Re: Lofrans' windlass

The cones are what provides the friction plate area to engage or slip the gypsy. When you tighten the gypsy with the "nut" it causes the two cones on either side of the gypsy to tighten up against the gypsy. They are called cones since they have a slope chamfered on them to increase the surface area for the friction. If you picture a snowcone cup and make it wider and flatter that is what they look like. They will be keyed to the shaft of the windlass so they always turn but the gypsy is only turning to bring the anchor up when tight. And when loose the gypsy will turn on its own but the cones and shaft will not. If you power winch down the anchor then it is the same as powering it up - the cones are tight against the gypsy (which has a reverse cone on both sides). At least that is how I remember it from my Tigres.

You get to the cones from the outside by taking off the tightening nut (three rods), take off the outer cone, then remove the stripper, then the gypsy, then the inner cone. Sometimes they are hard to remove if not taken apart recently. You may need a puller (or some judicious blows from a mallet). Use never-seize on the shaft area only when putting back on. Or some lube of some sort. Never put lube or anything else on the cone mating surfaces.
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Old 02-11-2015, 02:00   #6
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Re: Lofrans' windlass

Thank you. So I unscrewed the nut holding the drum in place. Removed the drum. Lifted off a rubber washer above the gipsy and removed the gypsy. Did not take the cone off(my drawing calls it a gypsey holder). Operated the windlass and it pulls the chain up but will not let it out ear tricky. It looks like I will need to remove the windlass from below the deck to see anything else. Could a key somehow have come out of a slot and be wedged to allow the shaft to turn one direction, but the binds up going the other?


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Old 02-11-2015, 08:41   #7
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Re: Lofrans' windlass

It is not unusual for windlasses to "bind up" when dropping the anchor. They can get sticky where the cones (gypsy holder doesn't sound right but may be that is it) mate with the gypsy. You are not supposed to ever lube these surfaces as that can accumulate crud and cause it to stick even more later. I would do everything possible before removing the windlass. You should be able to solve your issue without doing that.

I found that ours would routinely stick a little bit (and others did too) but once it got started it would go out OK. It might stick after stopping too. I just stomped on the chain to give it "help" in overcoming the stickiness. Take some solvent to the surfaces and clean them really well. Check to see if there is any damage from sand or other material on the surfaces. If there are some obvious you might try to "carefully" hone them to take off any high spots. You don't want to change their shapes, much like the old bronze cone through hulls, except that those would be lubed. Our Tigres always stuck a little bit but it was from the cones/gypsy and not in the drive train. If the windlass would not come up then I would suspect the key on the shaft but yours seems to work.

Of course, there might be something inside the windlass that is causing a problem. I would have a rebuild kit handy if I took it all apart though. You might get away with reusing gaskets and seals but.... I tried to look at the manuals online but my Mac doesn't seem to like the zip files they are in. You might try calling IMTRA and ask them. Good luck.
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:54   #8
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Re: Lofrans' windlass

The aip files are hard on Macs. I tried to download to my iPad and had to go to my PC. It is strange how pulling the anchor up is is fine. Letting it out, the motor turns, I hear it but it will not turn the spindle. It did the same thing when I had the drum off. There did not to be much salt or sand in the drum. It looked very clean. It will just not turn when I try to let the chain out.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:26   #9
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Re: Lofrans' windlass

Quote:
Originally Posted by landonshaw View Post
The aip files are hard on Macs. I tried to download to my iPad and had to go to my PC. It is strange how pulling the anchor up is is fine. Letting it out, the motor turns, I hear it but it will not turn the spindle. It did the same thing when I had the drum off. There did not to be much salt or sand in the drum. It looked very clean. It will just not turn when I try to let the chain out.
It is starting to sound like you may have stripped the worm gear drive inside the gear box. If the motor reverses that rules out electrical problems. There is not much else it could be.
Imtra is a pretty good outfit to deal with.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:30   #10
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Re: Lofrans' windlass

When you say "letting it out" do you mean using a down switch using the motor or by loosing the gypsy so it plays out by gravity? And I don't think you should be able to hear the motor turning. May be you mean the gears. The other poster may be on to something. But I would call IMTRA. They have always been helpful for me.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:44   #11
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Re: Lofrans' windlass

By letting it out, I mean pushing the down switch. The sound I hear is from the gears turning I imagine when on deck, although when I stick my head in the chain locker, I can hear the motor.


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Old 02-11-2015, 11:40   #12
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Re: Lofrans' windlass

Quote:
Originally Posted by landonshaw View Post
I have a loran windlass, gipsy drum, mod. Airon, went to lover they chain and it was wedged between the chain cover and the drum. Got it free after taking the bolts out and removing the stripper. Now the windlass will not I gage and drop the anchor chain, but it will bring it up very easily. You push the down switch, the motor rotates, if you have a winch, you can turn the drum and it lowers the chain. Take the winch out it might turn another 8th of a turn then stop and the motor keeps running until you release the switch. Pull the chain up and it works fine. Any ideas on what is wrong? Ideas on how to fix?


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I have a Lofrans Cayman which has been very reliable. Is there any resistance or something impeding the flow of chain into the locker to the anchor chain on the side the chain is coming off the gypsy? Nothing jammed between the stripper and gypsy? From memory they have sort of pawl /ratchet system whereby if anything impedes the chain on that side a loud clicking noise is heard and gypsy stops pulling in, once obstruction cleared it continues to pull in chain. But it sounds more like key on shaft or worm/pinion is stripped. Here is a diagram of the Lofrans "Atlas" which shows the cones being spoken of by OP.
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Old 02-11-2015, 16:16   #13
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Re: Lofrans' windlass

I don't know if our Lofrans windlass are the same (forgot the name of mine) but I learned a lot about mine when I rebuilt it.

Mine acted just like yours, it would power up the chain just fine but had problems powering it down, but only when I first started to lower the anchor. What I found was that this windlass didn't "power" the chain out at all, only up. So what it was doing was, once the weight of the chain and anchor was sufficient to continue to pull the chain out of the locker, the motor would control how fast the chain came out. It wasn't actually pulling it out of the locker.

It has a pawl system in that only allows the motor to engage the driving shaft in one direction.

Maybe these pictures will help or at least see if your windlass is similar.
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Old 02-11-2015, 17:29   #14
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Re: Lofrans' windlass

Wind River: "that this windlass didn't "power" the chain out at all, only up. So what it was doing was, once the weight of the chain and anchor was sufficient to continue to pull the chain out of the locker, the motor would control how fast the chain came out."

I think Wind River is onto it. At least it is very easy to distinguish if that is the problem. With the cone tension on, simply make sure nothing is impeding the chain from leaving the chain locker and give it a pull from the other side of the gypsy and see if it will feed out from then on. That will at least eliminate that problem. If the chain has knotted up inside the locker the winch will not move it out. As windriver said it basically goes out by gravity but the winch is there with motor going just not to hinder it.
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Old 02-11-2015, 19:21   #15
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Re: Lofrans' windlass

Just to help with the power flow through MY windlass (still don't know if it is the same as the OP).

In my second picture you can see the worm gear that is attached directly to the motor. The worm gear drives the ring gear (large round gear) in either direction but the ring gear spins freely on the output shaft. No key way connection.

The locking pawl is connected to the ring gear and that pawl locates in the teeth of the drive hub (the bright brass hub next to the ring gear). This drive hub is keyed to the output shaft and is the sole point of drive to output shaft. The pawl will only drive this hub in the direction that will bring your chain back on board.

In the fourth picture you can see the cone clutch, which is also keyed to the output shaft. The chain gypsy is mated to this cone when the outer wheel (red wheel on the end of the output shaft) is tightened. The chain gypsy (the wheel the chain engages onto) is not keyed to the output shaft either, it is being driven through the friction of the cone clutch. Loosen the cone clutch and gravity will let the anchor down with no other parts of the windlass moving.

The other red wheel is the brake for the chain gypsy. When powering up or down this is loose. It is used if the gypsy needs to be locked or slowed when using the windlass manually or when using the rope side of the windlass. On the rope side of this windlass there is a slot to engage a handle into so the chain can be brought back up manually. With the pawl arrangement it allows the handle to be used like a ratchet so it doesn't need to be constantly re positioned as the chain is brought up.
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