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Old 31-10-2013, 23:40   #61
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

Caribsailors there are many people on this forum that wish to help me succeed, I can tell your not one of them. I ask that people who feel I shouldn't do it not clutter up this thread with the same opinion over and over and over. I feel like some people on this thread are just politicians. I'll be keeping this thread open as long as I continue to get good information from the respectable people that afford it to me. or until the moderator says otherwise. The positive people in this world are who I want to hear from. Thanks everyone for the great information you will be rewarded by me not sinking 10 feet from the dock. Thanks Charley
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Old 31-10-2013, 23:43   #62
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

Dos Gatos do you have a formula I can use to figure out usable displacement. I can start weighing everything so I get it right. Thanks Charley
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Old 31-10-2013, 23:46   #63
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Thumbs up Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

Good Luck and Fair Winds......

PLEASE Report back.

Cheers
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:03   #64
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

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Originally Posted by trapoc View Post
Adodero I didnt choose a bayliner I chose a Gary Mull design that happened to be built by bayliner and at least 2 other manufacturers. From what I read this boat should sail well and with the right upgrades I believe this boat will serve me well. There are a lot of people that feel otherwise but I believe they are just using a name to justify their opinions. This is not the buccaneer that everyone thinks of..
I have heard this before. I was in a yard a few weeks ago and we were walking around, we saw a Buccaneer and it spurred a rant by the guy I was with. He said there were a few models made that were well designed and somewhat well built, but Bayliner trashed it after a little while and made a different boat that was of substantially poorer quality, but with the same name. I don't recall specifics, I just remember him speaking highly of those earlier designs. I found this odd because I had never heard that before, I filed it away to look into it later out of curiosity, but never got around to it.

So you may be right, I don't know, only you can be sure. Your comment just got me thinking about what he said, I don't know much beyond what he told me, but there is definitely some kind of history there. I personally would never own a Bayliner anything, but that comes from growing up around powerboats and seeing their quality issues there.
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:07   #65
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

In my limited experience of binliners, its the fitout that is the problem, a glass hull is a glass hull, if the design is reasonable, then you only have to worry about the lay up.
If you have an empty hull, then add some strength where needed and fit out according to your needs.
Personally I would engineer a bulkhead rather than a post for the mast support.
Have a look at Albin Vegas for some inspiration of similar size boats doing ocean passages.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:14   #66
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

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Originally Posted by trapoc View Post
Adelie I have 3 chain plates on each side of the boat and 2 in the rear and 1 in the front. This leads me to believe that this boat does have double lower shrouds. Its hard to get to my mast because I have it tied up in the rafters of my shop but i can see at least 7 shrouds on it. I was thinking of adding a bow pulpit to put an anchor roller on. But thought it might also serve as an additional chain plate. You are really helping me sort this stuff out and I could send pics of my boat so you could verify if I am correct. Thanks Charley
No need, I can see the chainplates in this photo, like I said, some of the photos were ambiguous, it looks like the design was changed mid production.

Don't beat up on people too bad about the Buccaneer name, the early boats really were atrocious, the club I was in had one briefly, the only think it was good for was being a committee boat. I raced on one of the later models, but the name had been trashed so badly by the early boats they didn't sell and the name had to be changed and a lot of people don't know about this.

Here's an example: BUCCANEER 240 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
24' boat with 6' or 6'2" headroom, minuscule fin, powerboat hull shape, ...

A pullpit is a railing around the bow to keep crew on board. Do you mean bowsprit?
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:38   #67
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
We all have our daemons, I hope he handles his before he gets in deep water. Maybe he will realize then that we were not posting for our entertainment. I wish him safe journey and more importantly, enlightenment.
I think you have a brilliant idea. I can't wait until you make ocean passage!! Since you are building ground up, for all of our entertainment, please install multiple GoPros everywhere and a black box rigged up to all of you electronics, communication networks, and GoPros. Be sure to leave a request for all to be posted on YouTube... Once the remaining pieces of your perfect storm withstanding tank of a vessel, via the GPS tracker you install, all of us negative naysayers can have a little chuckle with reality while watching you epic adventure.
Thank you Charley for sacrificing yourself for. Our entertainment.
What a guy, huh?
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:45   #68
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
No need, I can see the chainplates in this photo, like I said, some of the photos were ambiguous, it looks like the design was changed mid production.

Don't beat up on people too bad about the Buccaneer name, the early boats really were atrocious, the club I was in had one briefly, the only think it was good for was being a committee boat. I raced on one of the later models, but the name had been trashed so badly by the early boats they didn't sell and the name had to be changed and a lot of people don't know about this.

Here's an example: BUCCANEER 240 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
24' boat with 6' or 6'2" headroom, minuscule fin, powerboat hull shape, ...

A pullpit is a railing around the bow to keep crew on board. Do you mean bowsprit?
Adelie I have been using the term bow pulpit as a platform with railing from which to extend your viewing range. It has been explained to me this way"Common Meaning
The more popular and less nautical definition of a pulpit is an extended, railed platform jutting out from the bow. These were once very common for observation purposes. In the days before sonar and radar, it was often necessary to have a man placed out beyond the bow looking ahead at the local waters for obstructions. They were also useful for whaling and fishing. This kind of pulpit is instantly recognizable to many from the classic film "Jaws," as the Orca had a prominent pulpit. They derive their name from a general resemblance to the raised lecterns used for sermons and readings in many churches".
I also always thought of a bow spirit as being this"Bowsprits
Sometimes confused with the pulpit is the bowsprit. This is a pole or tube that extends out beyond the bow. These are usually extensions meant to accommodate sailing rigging, but they are sometimes added to non-sailing vessels for strictly decorative purposes"
I'm sorry about the confusion. If I am to add any extension to the boat it would be a platform from which to view,store anchor and mount an extra forestay. After thinking about it I dont believe I will go that far. I still thank you for all your help. Charley



Read more: What Is a Pulpit on a Boat? | eHow



Read more: What Is a Pulpit on a Boat? | eHow
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:46   #69
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

We do seem to have some sick minds on this thread. Back to trying to give a little help, rather than contempt. Trapoc, since your boat is a Gary mull design, I would be very cautious of changing the sail plan. He is noted for good sailing boats, and changing things might hurt that good quality. I think one of the things that needs to considered is weight. A well designed boat can become a slug if it is over loaded. The Kubota that you bought is much larger than is needed for a 25 foot boat. A single cylinder Kubota would be more than enough, and much lighter. A smaller engine will also be much easier to stuff into a 25 foot boat. A boat of this size can use 5HP up to about 10HP. before you are just adding weight , and hurting performance. About a bow sprit!!!. I added a short wood bow sprit to my 26 footer, but it was really just for getting the anchor roller far enough away from the bow, so that it didnt chip the gelcoat every time I hoisted the hook. I left the anchor there all of the time, even on passages. Weight on the ends of the boat is not good, but it was better than tripping over it tied on deck, or trying to find a place in an already cramped cabin. All things in small boats are a compromise. ______Grant.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:54   #70
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

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Originally Posted by jump12k View Post
I think you have a brilliant idea. I can't wait until you make ocean passage!! Since you are building ground up, for all of our entertainment, please install multiple GoPros everywhere and a black box rigged up to all of you electronics, communication networks, and GoPros. Be sure to leave a request for all to be posted on YouTube... Once the remaining pieces of your perfect storm withstanding tank of a vessel, via the GPS tracker you install, all of us negative naysayers can have a little chuckle with reality while watching you epic adventure.
Thank you Charley for sacrificing yourself for. Our entertainment.
What a guy, huh?
I thank you for your support you must be a very generous person to live with. Thanks again Charley
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:07   #71
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

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We do seem to have some sick minds on this thread. Back to trying to give a little help, rather than contempt. Trapoc, since your boat is a Gary mull design, I would be very cautious of changing the sail plan. He is noted for good sailing boats, and changing things might hurt that good quality. I think one of the things that needs to considered is weight. A well designed boat can become a slug if it is over loaded. The Kubota that you bought is much larger than is needed for a 25 foot boat. A single cylinder Kubota would be more than enough, and much lighter. A smaller engine will also be much easier to stuff into a 25 foot boat. A boat of this size can use 5HP up to about 10HP. before you are just adding weight , and hurting performance. About a bow sprit!!!. I added a short wood bow sprit to my 26 footer, but it was really just for getting the anchor roller far enough away from the bow, so that it didnt chip the gelcoat every time I hoisted the hook. I left the anchor there all of the time, even on passages. Weight on the ends of the boat is not good, but it was better than tripping over it tied on deck, or trying to find a place in an already cramped cabin. All things in small boats are a compromise. ______Grant.
Grant I am worried about how much weight I will be adding and am trying to find a formula to use in calculating how much weight can be added with out compromising the boats performance. and where to load the additional weight. The kubota is over kill and I don't like the fuel consumption figures also. But I checked on a single cylinder diesel w/trans I believe it was a Yanmar and it weighed considerably more then the Kubota w/out the trans. I can get a kubota 2cyl intrade for my 3cylinder and was thinking of taking that option. As always thanks Charley
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:10   #72
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

Its a 25 foot boat, put an outboard on it and call it a day, easy to fix. Yes it comes out of the water in bigger seas but a good sailing 25 footer won't need an engine most times. Set up some solar panels to do the battery charging.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:20   #73
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Its a 25 foot boat, put an outboard on it and call it a day, easy to fix. Yes it comes out of the water in bigger seas but a good sailing 25 footer won't need an engine most times. Set up some solar panels to do the battery charging.
.

+1 also the space saved below can be used to store an inflatable dink other bits.
You may be able to get by with only 2 thru hulls, sink drain/salt water in and poo out.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:29   #74
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

We also don't know what you don't know, but some of your questions about boat displacement indicate you need to do some more, if not a lot more research. I am sure there are internet resources, but good books about boat design are also available. Do I know any ones specifically. Sorry, no, I don't.

As far as detailing, one of the better books I've read is Don Casey's "This Old Boat." Just yesterday I spent some time with folks who just bought a Morgan 33 and are going from here to Mexico. They had a few books on board but said one of the best they know of was Casey's. I agree. There are a lot of things in that book that will answer many of the questions you keep asking about.

We have a 3 cylinder Kubota in our Catalina 34. One of those would be complete overkill for you.

Two things that come to mind for a cruising boat:

1. Anchoring system. It really IS a system. You talked about a pulpit and a bowsprit, but these are not necessary for a good anchoring system, although the pulpit would be a good safety item. What you need to investigate are what are called bow rollers. Smaller ones, like what we call our "toy" bow rollers which are small rollers right at the forestay are, in my estimation, better than the longer ones that stick out over the bow, which create a larger moment arm and require much more structural support. Roll bar anchors on bow roller Rocna Flix You'll also need to figure out where to store the rode. You might be interested in this report from one of our skippers who sailed his C34 from Vancouver, BC down to Mexico, it includes a lot of "what worked" items. 1500 Mile Interim Refit Report & 3596 Update

2. A secure, robust and dependable electrical system. Many, many, many posts on this and other forums have indicated that wind generators are far less effective than promised and folks have replaced them with more solar. Other issue is noise, for both your and other folks in your anchorages. Here's a bunch of helpful electrical system links: Electrical Systems 101

Good luck, happy reading and building.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:49   #75
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
We also don't know what you don't know, but some of your questions about boat displacement indicate you need to do some more, if not a lot more research. I am sure there are internet resources, but good books about boat design are also available. Do I know any ones specifically. Sorry, no, I don't.

As far as detailing, one of the better books I've read is Don Casey's "This Old Boat." Just yesterday I spent some time with folks who just bought a Morgan 33 and are going from here to Mexico. They had a few books on board but said one of the best they know of was Casey's. I agree. There are a lot of things in that book that will answer many of the questions you keep asking about.

We have a 3 cylinder Kubota in our Catalina 34. One of those would be complete overkill for you.

Two things that come to mind for a cruising boat:

1. Anchoring system. It really IS a system. You talked about a pulpit and a bowsprit, but these are not necessary for a good anchoring system, although the pulpit would be a good safety item. What you need to investigate are what are called bow rollers. Smaller ones, like what we call our "toy" bow rollers which are small rollers right at the forestay are, in my estimation, better than the longer ones that stick out over the bow, which create a larger moment arm and require much more structural support. Roll bar anchors on bow roller Rocna Flix You'll also need to figure out where to store the rode. You might be interested in this report from one of our skippers who sailed his C34 from Vancouver, BC down to Mexico, it includes a lot of "what worked" items. 1500 Mile Interim Refit Report & 3596 Update

2. A secure, robust and dependable electrical system. Many, many, many posts on this and other forums have indicated that wind generators are far less effective than promised and folks have replaced them with more solar. Other issue is noise, for both your and other folks in your anchorages. Here's a bunch of helpful electrical system links: Electrical Systems 101

Good luck, happy reading and building.
Stu thank you for your input. The kubota I have is of the mini series I dont think it is the same as your thinking about but I do agree that 15hp is over kill for my boat. As for displacement there is not a lot of info available about how much weight is recomended for my boat. I can figure out how much a cubic foot of water weighs and determine how much it will displace. What I need to know is how much weight is aceptable. I also need a lot of schooling on the best anchoring system for this size boat. As always I appreciate your help. Thanks Charley
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