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Old 13-09-2013, 18:32   #1
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List of costs out there?

Greetings...first post!

We are looking at buying a boat to liveaboard (and a couple years later circumnavigate and cruise the planet)...prob in the 50' range. We are not adverse to a fixer-upper and are considering buying a boat that needs a total re-do inside. We have found there are many that have good hulls, engines, and decent sails/rigging, but everything else inside has been gutted or has got to go.

Having never outfitted the interior of a boat for long cruises (will prob end up putting extra features like watermaker, freezer, etc onboard) does anyone know of a list of all equipment with average purchase costs so we can make an easier decision on what costs we will incur? Or has anyone rebuilt an interior of a similar size boat and let us know about how much you spent to get her to liveaboard cruising status?

Let me know if you need more info to provide a better answer.

Thanks!
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Old 13-09-2013, 18:42   #2
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Re: List of costs out there?

Kind of hard to specify, it's a bit akin to asking how much the contents of a house cost. There's a ton of variability in even just the small items you listed, let a lone taking it down to the full detail.

I'd recommend thumbing around on defender.com or westmarine.com and looking at some options, getting some price goals from there.

If you can, wait a bit to buy a lot of things. I don't know what your sailing experience is, but there's a lot of difference in what you think you might need and then what you'd actually want. I've thrown plenty of things off my boat, and I guard other items with my life.

Good luck though, I was there about seven years ago and despite all the bullshit, money, and busted knuckles it's been worth it.
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Old 13-09-2013, 18:54   #3
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A friend of mine told me to get a west marine catalog and use it as a reference when looking at boats. Hearing things like "needs a new ______" doesn't mean much until you really start adding up prices. Freaking best advice we could have had. We were stuck in the wanting a mid 40's boat until we did that. And we still WANT one but are happy with decision to go smaller for our first. We can go bigger later but even as life long water lovers, it made sense to us to try it out first. But even if you stay at wanting around 50', knowing what you're going to spend then tacking on another 25-30% (easily) might give you an idea.
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Old 13-09-2013, 19:02   #4
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Re: List of costs out there?

water maker, 5000
freezer, 1400-2000
wire, 12-3 $2.10 a foot, times 1000
wire 14-2 $1.6 a foot times 1000
circuit panel with circuits, gauges, breakers $2500
new bilge pumps, $1200
pressure water pump, $400
new thru hulls $400 each typically times 4-6
new heads 300-600 each
raw water pump for AC unit, $500, each
new AC units 1800-2400 each
new batteries, 1400
new engine/transmission, unless its new already, 10-14,000 depending on size
cutlass bearing, 400-1200 installed
new generator, 8000
new led lights, inside and out, $3-5000
new hatches, 1200-2800 each
new Bimini 8,000-14,000
fridge, 1200-2000
new cloth for seats, settees, 4000-12,000

anything else?
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Old 13-09-2013, 19:07   #5
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Re: List of costs out there?

Like Eric said, too many variables: how bad is the interior, how far do you want to take it down, how fancy to you want to go with the rebuild, how much will you do vs how much will you hire out, will you use teak, solid teak, teak veneer, do you want it like new, perfect, good enough, just functional?

What equipment, how much equipment, top of the line, best deal, how many spares and backups. Do you want everything that you can fit on the boat or only the essentials? What you you consider as essentials: generator, AC, AC and heat, hot water, solar, how much solar?

I hope you see, the question is so open-ended that there is no accurate answer. To get a more exact answer you'll have to ask a more specific question.

I have done a major rebuild on boats twice and significant overhauls a couple of more times. First rule of thumb, it will cost twice as much and take twice as long as you estimate. I have managed to get the cost estimate a lot closer in my current rebuild but not the time so be prepared. However, to be honest I have not kept track of every small purchase of a few screws here, a couple of tubes of caulk there and all the myriad little bits and pieces that will add up.
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Old 13-09-2013, 19:11   #6
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Re: List of costs out there?

First, determine what condition you intend on restoring the vessel to. Lets assume bristol condition for a circumnavigation...

Assume that everything you see, and everything you cannot see, on the boat is broken, worn out, or in need of major refurbishment.

Add up the costs of replacing them with new or modern equipment, then double that figure to include labor, bits and parts unaccounted for, tools, disposable items, etc.

Basically, in order to restore a used boat to bristol condition, plan on an amount to what it would have cost to buy the boat when it was new. The best quote I heard is that "the initial cost of the vessel is the cost of the door ticket." Everyone knows you end up spending a lot more inside the strip club.
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Old 13-09-2013, 19:12   #7
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Re: List of costs out there?

I rebuilt a 47' boat. I had to remove the interior to get at the hull to repair the damage, the interior is new now. It will depend on the degree of finish you are intending. In my case I estimate the cost at somewhere between 70-90K. This covers new systems for plumbing, electrical, electronics, lighting, hardware, teak wood and glues plywood etc. The real kicker about 5000 hours labor.

Good luck and welcome aboard.

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Old 13-09-2013, 19:12   #8
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Re: List of costs out there?

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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
Add up the costs of replacing them with new or modern equipment, then double that figure to include labor, bits and parts unaccounted for, tools, disposable items, etc.
i completely disagree. he said he is doing it himself.
with your logic i should budget $4000 to replace an AC. no. its not that cut and dry.
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Old 13-09-2013, 19:30   #9
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Re: List of costs out there?

Having refit two boats I would also agree with what has been said above with the added proviso: don't forget to account for your labor. As Stevens47 said, he spent about 5,000 hours of his time AND "somewhere between 70-90k." That equates to 125 work weeks of 40 hour weeks, or two and half years. No matter your opinion of yourself, that time is worth something.

Many times I find it more cost effective to hire somebody to do a job for me on the boat than do it myself. This does not mean maintenance and all the stuff that goes into proper boat operation and maintenance. For example, I recently replaced the rigging on our 53 foot boat (similar in size to what you are considering). For me to acquire the skills and tools necessary for this would have cost me multiple times what I was able to hire it out for.

All of us are do-it-yourselfers in varying degrees but if you currently have a source of income - and can do the math - you might find it cheaper and faster to hire out a lot of this work. It will also get you out on the water sooner.

Cheers.

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Old 13-09-2013, 19:43   #10
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Re: List of costs out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobert View Post
i completely disagree. he said he is doing it himself.
with your logic i should budget $4000 to replace an AC. no. its not that cut and dry.
Well, I am using refit advise I got myself. This advise was "be true to yourself on what your skills you really posses." Using my example of returning a boat to bristol condition, very few people are going to possess all the necessary skills to do all that is necessary to a high standard of fit-out, in a reasonable period of time. It may very well be his intention to do "all the work himself" but you either have to spend that money in time or by paying someone else to do the work.

If the previous posters data point is correct, that it took him 5000 man hours to complete the refit, even at a minimum wage of $8 an hours, that 40K.
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Old 13-09-2013, 20:43   #11
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Re: List of costs out there?

One thing on costs, is that I have found on average that it will cost about the same as the purchase price of the item to get it installed, and that's doing labor yourself.

Widget costs $500? Likely you will spend $1,000 by the time its installed, wired, piped, painted etc. etc.

Of course not true on every item, but on average I think about right.
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Old 13-09-2013, 22:57   #12
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Re: List of costs out there?

Great responses, everyone! I didn't expect so much information so quickly...glad I signed up! =)

Getting a catalog and noting everything I would need is a great idea. I do intend to do all of the work myself and have experience in both construction and electrical work (some plumbing). I don't compute my "time" as a cost because it really doesn't cost me anything net. We are fortunate enough to be able to live on one income, with my wife able to work remotely full time. This allows me to be anywhere in the world that at least has internet and work on the boat.

I also work in IT projects, so I totally understand (and expect to run into) "Final cost = Budgeted Money and Time X 2"

Most of the boats that we have seen still have walls and floorboards, etc. but are missing things like locker doors, cabinets, and such. So we are not looking at buying a 100% empty hull boat.

Everything mentioned is great...thanks for the mental jump start!
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Old 14-09-2013, 00:27   #13
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Re: List of costs out there?

Good luck. And unless you're dead set on 50' you might want to consider something smaller. I'm at 36', 43' with my sprit, and it's taken me a few years to really feel comfortable negotiating tight quarter maneuvers. There also aren't a lot of slips for 50' boats and the ones that are will cost you a lot. Bigger boats are bigger ground tackle, more batteries, more charging, more fuel, bigger sails, thicker lines, more paint, taller masts, etc, etc.
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Old 14-09-2013, 03:00   #14
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Re: List of costs out there?

Although not exactly what you are after - the Cruisers Equipment list in my sig below might be of help (collected wisdom of CF over a few threads).....obviously not to be treated as gospel, and prices are very ballpark. But IMO illuminating nonetheless.

Also worth a read (a wade through?!) is the Refit / Refurb thread (also in my sig) - lots of repetition, but from multiple sources has value as can pick out for self the common themes.......overall the advice is either think carefully (very carefully!) before buying.........or simply keep fingers crossed and jump straight in! (both approaches have worked for some, both approaches have not for others - me (and most?) favour the former. What you do is up to you!).
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Old 14-09-2013, 04:04   #15
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Re: List of costs out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by critter View Post
Most of the boats that we have seen still have walls and floorboards, etc. but are missing things like locker doors, cabinets, and such. So we are not looking at buying a 100% empty hull boat.

Everything mentioned is great...thanks for the mental jump start!

keep in mind things that work when you pick it up, will brake on the way home.
ask me how i know
by the time i had gotten home i had nearly had a fire, the generator that was working good, stopped working, fridge quit, the ac compressor was shot, but working for the first 10 hours, some wiring was very shot, a battery was disconnected from the system didnt think to disconnect each battery and check solo.
cost will go up, but i will give you a few examples.
replaced the AC raw water pump.
cost of pump $280 cost of misc bits, $8 time to install, 15min.
interior systems just do not take as long to replace, as say replacing the rudder bearings and seals.
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