Leaks on a Plastic Classic

[Browning]

We are composing a short list for the boat search that we have just started (outing !) and a type definitely interesting for us seems to be the Vancouver 32. When I look at the yachts of this type currently for sale, one of the first objects sports the attached fotos .

The other side has similar leaks the whole length.

I assume that this is a deck-hull joint leaking all the way, which, as I understand, is quite bad for a couple of reasons.

Now, I have already looked at various fotos of various boats and never seen such leaks. Are they rare or have the other sellers been more efficient in hiding them?

If they are rare and a fist V32 I look at has them, is it an expected problem on any V32?

Or should I just expect them on any classic I get (for a classic this will be)?

How can these leeks be combated:
A. assuming the moisture hasn't yet lead to any damage to sides nor deck
B. without the above assumption?

[Don C L]

Leaky hull to deck joints are not uncommon, and not limited to classics always. Depends on the boat make and model. In my case my old classic is still sealed and dry, but the flush deck version of my boat does have have some hull/deck joint issues. It can be a challenge to track down the source of the leak sometimes. If you really like the boat otherwise, you may need to factor in the cost of repairing the joint.

[wsmac]

I'm new to all this myself.... but I did my searching on the West Coast of the U.S. from the San Francisco area up to Coos Bay, Oregon.

From my experience and looking at your pictures....
In my price range... USD $20,000 max... every boat I saw had some issue either with a leak and/or gapping and Hardware Store Silicone treatment around deck hardware.

Chainplates were the most common area for leaks.
Hatches and portlights... less so
Deck-to-Hull joint... a few
Prop Shaft, through-hulls... not as many as the other places

By far the LARGEST contributor to a leaky boat... hatches and portlights left open such that the rains that have been constant out here, were free to "rain down" into the cabin areas.

My boat came with a very slight drip at the forward hatch and the smaller hatch over the salon (this one might be coming through the old solar fan though).

I get a bit of rainwater from the mast through the support post... but the bilge barely acquires more than a few tablespoons of water.
All other areas I have been able to crawl into, reach into, view with a boroscope into... have been dry... thankfully!

There are old stains in the V-berth along the lines of yours, but mine are darker... more 'oily/grease-like' looking. The berth wall coverings and berth floor are totally dry though, and it looks like they are pretty old stains.

I figure there will be leaks on many older boats (mine is 32 years old), more if the boat was abused and misused and neglected. Some possibly just because of poor craftsmanship...either endemic to the company or model, or just for the particular days the boat was made.

From all the information I've gathered and been instructed on by others... it's much more worrisome if water has infiltrated a laminated deck/hull.

But I'm still learning!

[Suijin]

FWIW those leaks look like deck fixture leaks. In the first photo, it's the chainplate bedding that is leaking (not exactly uncommon in an older boat, although maintaining them properly would prevent that). In the second photo, It might bow cleats/chocks, impossible to tell.

It also appears, if you look carefully, as the boat was loaded with mildew at some point, and recently cleaned. Look at the cubby above the middle of the settee and the cabinet to the right of it. Either that is residual mold residue, or water damage, or both.

But it doesn't really matter what the cause is, because in any boat where this has been left unattended it's going to lead to other very unattractive attributes, like soft decks. If I were boat shopping I would generally steer clear of an older boat with those symptoms for the simple fact that evaluating the extent of damage can be very difficult and it's a sign of generally poor maintenance. You're kind of buying a box of Crack Jack.

[Browning]

Thanks for the responses!

Originally Posted by Suijin

FWIW those leaks look like deck fixture leaks. In the first photo, it's the chainplate bedding that is leaking (not exactly uncommon in an older boat, although maintaining them properly would prevent that). In the second photo, It might bow cleats/chocks, impossible to tell.

there are more, and on the other side too, so I think the whole hull-to-deck joint is busted.

But it doesn't really matter what the cause is, because in any boat where this has been left unattended it's going to lead to other very unattractive attributes, like soft decks.

Would the joint be possible for repair if the leak were discovered early?

If I were boat shopping I would generally steer clear of an older boat with those symptoms for the simple fact that evaluating the extent of damage can be very difficult and it's a sign of generally poor maintenance. You're kind of buying a box of Crack Jack.

I understand this. My question is, should I keep clear of this particular boat or of this model (V32) in general?

[Suijin]

Regarding whether the hull deck joint is repairable at a reasonable cost of time and money, that's above my pay grade. But in my experience the only way to reliably fix a leak in two mating surfaces is to separate them, restore, and rebed them. You can caulk around the seams but you'll be playing whack-a-mole evermore.

[Rick Williams]

There are a lot of good old boats that have been well maintained by the family who has loved the boat for years but have reached an age where they can't work the boat and have to part with it. Find that boat!
If you know there's a problem like a hull/deck joint, run for the hills!
Also, if you suspect deck leaks you need to find out if the deck is balsa cored. If it is, forget this project! Trust me when I tell you that a slow leak into a balsa core deck is expensive and heartbreaking!
Find the boat that's in good condition and has lots of bells and whistles. That means the owner loved his boat and unless he's dead, will have taken care of his baby. They're out there, keep looking. You'll spend a lot less time looking than you will repairing!
Says the guy who knows from (painful/expensive) experience.
Rick

[Cheechako]

I don't know the boat, but does it have aluminum bolt thru toerails? Those are the biggest leak issue. Boats with glassed hull to deck joints rarely leak. If a boat has leaking toerails... run away.
Other possibilities:
-Deck fittings that are leaking.
-It could simply be condensation running down and staining.

[fatherchronica]

Sometimes it is simply the year the boat was built and because most boat builders are small and only in business for awhile they have a steep learning curve. I met the guy who built my boat who was by then a semi retired surveyor and the first thing he asked me was what year it was built then inquired about leaks at the gunnels, as he said they changed some practices after mine was built to correct some flaws that cropped up later.

[wsmac]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I don't know the boat, but does it have aluminum bolt thru toerails? Those are the biggest leak issue. Boats with glassed hull to deck joints rarely leak. If a boat has leaking toerails... run away.
Other possibilities:
-Deck fittings that are leaking.
-It could simply be condensation running down and staining.

Can I hold you responsible for not fully disclosing this little fact before I bought my boat even if you had absolutely NOTHING to do with the deal?

I was pulling out the fabric liner in the quarter berth last night and since it was raining pretty good... discovered a leak I hadn't found before... I suspected it was from the ALUMINUM TOE RAIL right above! lol

My plan... unless I find out something different I should do... was/is to remove enough screws to lift that area of toerail and rebed it and the screws.
But at least without the fabric... now that drip won't cause a molding issue on that wall!

Either that... or I hear the local hardware store has a good sale going on for TUB & SHOWER caulking... lots of colors too! ... I'm kidding... seriously... just joking!

[wsmac]

So more in line with my experience and what the OP is showing us...

When signs of leaks occur, like in the pictures the OP posted, has anyone every taken a hose to the boat to see if they still leak?

Or... would that be something you just don't ask of the seller?

How do you go about finding an active leak? If the stains are dry... maybe the leak issue was addressed already... appropriately.. successfully.. by the PO or the owner before them?

[toddster8]

Every fastener on the deck can and will leak unless it is maintained periodically.
I've looked at some beautiful boats this last year, with acres of gleaming brightwork, but from the amount of rot in the backs of the lockers, it looks like they've been leaking for many years.

[wsmac]

Originally Posted by toddster8

Every fastener on the deck can and will leak unless it is maintained periodically.
I've looked at some beautiful boats this last year, with acres of gleaming brightwork, but from the amount of rot in the backs of the lockers, it looks like they've been leaking for many years.

That's why I'm taking this current leak in stride at the moment.
Mechanically, it's the joint between different surfaces that are at some level of dynamic state and what I need to do is create a seal between them that will allow for that movement.

That and hope no water has infiltrated the glass'd hull and deck!

So unless I can find out otherwise... I'll take up the toerail to whatever amount I feel necessary and rebed it.
I can imagine pulling the whole toerail up might be the best way, since jacking only part of it up might introduce an issue at the leverage point?

[wsmac]

For the OP....

It is my understanding that anchor plates can be rebedded (in some cases reinforced below deck) with a little bit of work and proper compound.

Deck/Hull joints... I've heard, and we've seen posted here, to walk away!
But then to the other extreme.. I've seen stories of folks completely separating the two and reattaching them... WAY more work than I want to invest, personally.

Can the seller of the boat you are looking at provide an explanation for the leaks that are apparent in the pics?

[TrentePieds]

Quote: " My question is, should I keep clear of this particular boat or of this model (V32) in general?"

Some of these boats were built in the Far East, some in the UK. I would expect to find differences in the quality of the build, so perhaps determining the name of the builder would be a first step to evaluating the probability that the hull/deck joint is sound.

As Suijin sez, stains can be "old damage" from leaks that are no longer occurring, having been repaired satisfactorily by a PO. You need to find out if this boat has ACTIVE leaks and then determine if you are willing to incur the cost of repairing any you find.

I myself can live "patina" from such things a mildew PROVIDED the causal agent has been eliminated and no more damage is occfurring.

TP