Latest Lightweight, Rot Free Panels for Projects

[Chotu]

Here's a video on what they do to attach veneers to it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HyKxa11YZN0

This might be exactly what I'm looking for!

[jimbunyard]

Which are you talking about? Thermolite is a polyurethane foam much like coosa, or airex or nida or any of the others, the Ecoste 'board' appears to be PVC/wood flour/misc chemical product made in India.

Ecoste's site is quite lacking in information, at least in my quick look, but my experience with PVC/sawdust board is that it is soft, heavy, unrigid and subject to deformation. Maybe it's been improved since I've last used it, though I don't know how they could have cut the weight without further lessening it's already somewhat dubious characteristics.

I did find some panel manufacturers that offer custom laminating services, but I would expect that your requirements don't meet their minimums.

Try for some samples; you might find something, but again, the three qualities you're searching for don't exist simultaneously in a single material, as far as I know.

For the quantity that you're looking for, I think 1/2 or 3/4 coosa or thermolite laminated (by you or your workers) with Formica or melamine, used in conjunction with with well or T-nuts as Bill suggested is going to be the closest you get to what you want.

Could be wrong though...

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Which are you talking about? Thermolite is a polyurethane foam much like coosa, or airex or nida or any of the others, the Ecoste 'board' appears to be PVC/wood flour/misc chemical product made in India.

Ecoste's site is quite lacking in information, at least in my quick look, but my experience with PVC/sawdust board is that it is soft, heavy, unrigid and subject to deformation. Maybe it's been improved since I've last used it, though I don't know how they could have cut the weight without further lessening it's already somewhat dubious characteristics.

I did find some panel manufacturers that offer custom laminating services, but I would expect that your requirements don't meet their minimums.

Try for some samples; you might find something, but again, the three qualities you're searching for don't exist simultaneously in a single material, as far as I know.

For the quantity that you're looking for, I think 1/2 or 3/4 coosa or thermolite laminated (by you or your workers) with Formica or melamine, used in conjunction with with well or T-nuts as Bill suggested is going to be the closest you get to what you want.

Could be wrong though...

Somehow, I'm not thinking you're wrong. Ha ha.

I'm just learning here. It's a steep learning curve. I wish I could just go see/feel these things to understand.

It's a shame the retail world was replaced by online only shopping.

I resin infused the whole boat so I already have a great setup for putting laminate on any panel with adhesive.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Somehow, I'm not thinking you're wrong. Ha ha.

I'm just learning here. It's a steep learning curve. I wish I could just go see/feel these things to understand.

It's a shame the retail world was replaced by online only shopping.

I resin infused the whole boat so I already have a great setup for putting laminate on any panel with adhesive.

I don't have the data to watch the video, but I think the PVC board you linked to is the same as Azek trim sold all over the US. It's used as window trim and molding for homes, so your local lumbar yard probably has it, or a generic example, in stock. I know HomeDepots in Florida have it (not sure about all states). But I really recommend trying it first before you commit... PVC boards don't work well on spans and needs a lot of framing to keep straight.

I'm not sure where you are based, but when we were figuring out what to use in Souther Florida, we went to a few sport fishing builders and asked for some off cuts from material they used for furniture. They happily gave us a bunch of different densities of Coosa, corecell, Tricell honeycomb to play around with. I'm sure you could do the same all over the East Coast. Merritt Supplies also had some scrap they gave us.

Matt

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

. They happily gave us a bunch of different densities of Coosa, corecell, Tricell honeycomb to play around with. I'm sure you could do the same all over the East Coast. Merritt Supplies also had some scrap they gave us.

Matt

Thanks, Matt.

I'm definitely familiar with the PVC trim pieces they sell. Heavy and floppy. If that's what the ecoste is, it's way too heavy. Thanks for letting me know about that.

I built my boat from corecell. I'm vaguely familiar with coosa. I'm also familiar with honeycomb core.

None of these are quite what I'm trying to find.

I need something I can build cabinets out of without wasting lots of time.

Corecell: extremely expensive, needs to be fiberglassed, faired, sanded, painted.
Coosa: Could potentially work, but porous surface means lots of finishing work.
Honey Comb: Unless prefinished, lots of laminating to do, edges to fill, need to completely replace the core where hardware goes

I'm looking for a lightweight, prefinished white panel that can go up quickly. Think Melamine board, but lightweight and able to hold screws and other cabinet hardware.

Seems this doesn't exist.

I'd even maybe settle for a foam that holds fasteners that I have to put a laminate face on myself.

[Dsanduril]

Have you ever seen FiberCorr? It’s used in the building industry, I’ve never considered its suitability for boats but seems to tick the boxes. Mostly I’ve seen the pebbled surface but the website says it comes in a smooth finish. I suspect a bit heavier than Coosa, but also prefinished (if you like their limited colors).

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Have you ever seen FiberCorr? It’s used in the building industry, I’ve never considered its suitability for boats but seems to tick the boxes. Mostly I’ve seen the pebbled surface but the website says it comes in a smooth finish. I suspect a bit heavier than Coosa, but also prefinished (if you like their limited colors).

Thank you. We're getting there.

I don't like the lumpy appearance of this one, but it's a good lead.

I'm hoping through the power of the forum, I'll be able to discover the right premade panels.

[Dsanduril]

I agree, never liked the pebbled that seems to get used everywhere and is hard to clean. But they do make a smooth finish that is pretty much like Formica. I’ve seen it used in biopharma where we do wet washdown of entire rooms using some pretty harsh cleaning chemicals and a water rinse.

[smj]

We used 1/4” marine okoume plywood on our interior, lightweight and easy to work with. We didn’t epoxy coat the plywood, just painted. But putting 3 coats of epoxy on each side before cutting the ply would be easy though heavier and more expensive.
A friend remodeled the salon of his Lagoon 410 using the preskinned Nida Core. He gelcoated the full sheets before cutting and it looks absolutely professional. I wonder if there’s a snap on plastic trim you could install on the edges of the Nida Core rather than epoxy filling?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by smj

We used 1/4” marine okoume plywood on our interior, lightweight and easy to work with. We didn’t epoxy coat the plywood, just painted. But putting 3 coats of epoxy on each side before cutting the ply would be easy though heavier and more expensive.
A friend remodeled the salon of his Lagoon 410 using the preskinned Nida Core. He gelcoated the full sheets before cutting and it looks absolutely professional. I wonder if there’s a snap on plastic trim you could install on the edges of the Nida Core rather than epoxy filling?

Some good thoughts. Thank you.

I suppose going up a bit in plywood thickness and doing stick frame could work well. Even a good paint could take the place of epoxy on wood. A good primer then topcoat.

Was 1/4" a little too strong/heavy or just right? Seems maybe going down a bit in thickness might be good for some things that don't see any loading. But not to doorskin level. That's like something you can kick through by mistake and crack.

Now a snap in trim would be a good thing too. He skinned it using gelcoat on a glassing table?

[Chotu]

Adding up the weights of various panels, it's looking like 1/4" okoume is actually the lighter way to go. Surprising.

Each cored solution requires a face. The face for say, Formica or Wilsonart is 10lbs extra for each face of a 4x8 sheet. So 20lbs per 4x8 additional on top of any core.

1/4” okoume is 18lbs per sheet. Probably some extra framing to consider though. Plus finishing.

What’s the cheapest, lightest foam to make cabinets from?

Maybe I could just take a super light/cheap foam and use Wilsonart or Formica in place of fiberglass? I have the whole vacuum setup so I could really get the finish paneks to stick.

Maybe I could cut the foam first, fit together, etc.. then disassemble, trace the foam on the finish material (Formica/Wilsonart), cutting out just the right size pieces, including edging pieces where needed. Then stick them together and bag them for a good bond?

Is there anything wrong with using the Formica as the structural tension and compression layers, in place of fiberglass on cores like foam or nidacore?

Still a real bear to get any hardware to hold I'd think. Would probably have to replace the areas where hardware goes with wood blocks.

[Checkswrecks]

I've done projects using 1/4", 1/2", and 3/4" thick 4x8 sheets of AZEK PVC panels from Home Depot and Lowes. The stores also have other shapes or just wood for building the formers behind the faces and you can solvent bond the materials with glue off the shelf. I have some 3/4" and 1/2" in the shed to build the new composting head. The 3/4" is slightly under $100/sheet. Starboard is better but much more expensive.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Veranda-...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

Very easy to work with and with some cuts on the hidden side can be heat formed to give nice rounded corners. See 8:00 and 10:15:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE4Qqzf73gc

I wipe the cut edges with MEK to seal them or they'll give off dust. Takes gloss paint like a champ and unpainted it takes marks from everything that touches it.

The only caveats I've found are (1) keep the shop vac hose next to the blade or sander because of the dust generated, and (2) it does need framing closely spaced or it will bow over time with heat. Outdoors, it expands more than fiberglass and a lot more than metal.

Azek outdoor cabinets:
Outdoor Cabinet with a twist « Beverin Solid Surface, Inc.

[Chotu]

Thank you Checks wrecks! Nice work!

[Matt Johnson]

I know you're looking for rot free, but here is what we used for for our ceiling (hull sides) and overhead:

https://www.worldpanel.com/product-p...marine-plywood

It's a lightweight marine plywood that is very stable so you don't have to worry about it checking when painted. We epoxy coated all sides before installing, but you could just cover front and back with a quality paint for an easy to clean surface.

It's available at World Panel is in Palm Beach Florida.

Richard Woods used to have a technical article on his site talking about what thickness plywood to use for furniture in a lightweight build. I did a quick search, but couldn't find it... it may still be there somewhere. If I remember correctly, he recommended 3/8" for minimum weight with enough strength, but of course frame spacing is an important factor and I can't remember what he suggested for that.

Matt

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

I know you're looking for rot free, but here is what we used for for our ceiling (hull sides) and overhead:

https://www.worldpanel.com/product-p...marine-plywood

It's a lightweight marine plywood that is very stable so you don't have to worry about it checking when painted. We epoxy coated all sides before installing, but you could just cover front and back with a quality paint for an easy to clean surface.

It's available at World Panel is in Palm Beach Florida.

Richard Woods used to have a technical article on his site talking about what thickness plywood to use for furniture in a lightweight build. I did a quick search, but couldn't find it... it may still be there somewhere. If I remember correctly, he recommended 3/8" for minimum weight with enough strength, but of course frame spacing is an important factor and I can't remember what he suggested for that.

Matt

Thanks, Matt.

3/8 sounds just right and is certainly the lightest way to go.

Painting, finishing, etc is no joke doing a complete interior so I've decided plywood isn't the way to go. I wan to achieve a very professional standard of finishing, have it lightweight and keep the budget in a moderate range.

Plywood fails on this because of all the labor involved painting it, my poor finish carpentry skills and general lack of really good DIY finish available in plywood.

If the Formica over foam test panel doesn't work out as I hope, I may revisit plywood, but got now I think Formica over foam will get things to go up quickly and beautifully. Only tough part is I'll need to replace the core with wood blocks where cabinet hardware goes.

PS:. Checked out PVC lumber at the box stores the other day. It's too heavy and floppy.