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Old 17-11-2014, 11:21   #1
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Lashing for the HMPE Lifelines

Excerpt from Starzingers lifeline write up.

"Recent testing has indicated that it is perhaps better to take the final half hitches only around the last single strand of the lashing, rather than around the whole lashing. This is because if you take them around the whole lashing, you clamp the lashing and prevent equal tension from coming on each strand and cut its strength by about 50%. Taking the half hitches around only the last strand allows the lashing to equalize tension between all the strands. It does make the half hitches more likely to slip, and you need to use at least 5 half hitches."

I'm using 1/4 amsteel blue for our lifelines. Looking at ways to lash the lifeline to the stanchion. The excerpt above seems logical.
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Old 17-11-2014, 11:22   #2
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Re: Lashing for the HMPE Lifelines

Sorry, link--http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/lifelines.pdf
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Old 17-11-2014, 12:31   #3
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Re: Lashing for the HMPE Lifelines

I've been using this set up for about 8 years. I copied the racers and used spectra lashings. Everything always seemed to need tightening. I complained to the Johnson fitting people and they said I should use a turnbuckle instead of lashings. I did and now they stay tight.
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Old 17-11-2014, 13:37   #4
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Re: Lashing for the HMPE Lifelines

What is still stretching if you have synthetic lifelines and lashing?
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Old 17-11-2014, 13:47   #5
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Re: Lashing for the HMPE Lifelines

Johnson said the lashings. Maybe it's impossible to get the tension even on all the turns.
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Old 19-11-2014, 08:49   #6
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Re: Lashing for the HMPE Lifelines

truth be told. the royal ocean racing club has banned the use of synthetic life lines. too many people fall overboard during races


too much chafe through the stanchion cut outs


uncoated wire is the only way you can guarantee your saftey
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Old 19-11-2014, 09:27   #7
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Re: Lashing for the HMPE Lifelines

On our tallships, we will take several frapping turns around robands and other such lashings before making them off in a reef knot. A good strain will still distribute the force evenly, even if we didn't get it perfect.

I haven't seen or heard this discussed anywhere, but my thought is that the frapping turns are important in slowing the action of a lashing as it fails. I have been personally involved with footrope lashings that failed on two occasions. The frapping turns allowed us time to grab on and transfer our weight as the footrope paid out, frap, frap, frap, frap, frap!
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Old 19-11-2014, 10:49   #8
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Re: Lashing for the HMPE Lifelines

Thanks. I have not seen this discussed much either so thought it would be good to get different input and experiences.
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Old 19-11-2014, 11:12   #9
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Re: Lashing for the HMPE Lifelines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean Girl View Post
Excerpt from Starzingers lifeline write up.

"Recent testing has indicated that it is perhaps better to take the final half hitches only around the last single strand of the lashing, rather than around the whole lashing. This is because if you take them around the whole lashing, you clamp the lashing and prevent equal tension from coming on each strand and cut its strength by about 50%. Taking the half hitches around only the last strand allows the lashing to equalize tension between all the strands. It does make the half hitches more likely to slip, and you need to use at least 5 half hitches."

I'm using 1/4 amsteel blue for our lifelines. Looking at ways to lash the lifeline to the stanchion. The excerpt above seems logical.
Thanks... this is a very timely as I am midway thru my research into using HMPE for my new lifelines....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
I've been using this set up for about 8 years. I copied the racers and used spectra lashings. Everything always seemed to need tightening. I complained to the Johnson fitting people and they said I should use a turnbuckle instead of lashings. I did and now they stay tight.
Which turnbuckle are you using? The regular or the new (and pricey) ones for synthetics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsurvey View Post
truth be told. the royal ocean racing club has banned the use of synthetic life lines. too many people fall overboard during races

too much chafe through the stanchion cut outs

uncoated wire is the only way you can guarantee your saftey
After reading all I could on user accounts, forums and the industry, I am still undecided. Pricewise there is not much of a difference, and the fact that this is relatively new and because of the (chafing) doubts I will need to always inspect and tighten things is sending me the way of the uncoated 1X19 316 wire.

For now...
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Old 22-11-2014, 10:00   #10
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Re: Lashing for the HMPE Lifelines

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTatia View Post
Which turnbuckle are you using? The regular or the new (and pricey) ones for synthetics?
What are the new and pricey ones for synthetics? I have not come across turnbuckles for synthetics before.
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Old 22-11-2014, 10:14   #11
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Re: Lashing for the HMPE Lifelines

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTatia View Post
Which turnbuckle are you using? The regular or the new (and pricey) ones for synthetics?
I went back to the original turnbuckles. I asked the Johnson people if they would be strong enough, they said sure. When you snag your lifelines on a pier or something nothing usually breaks, it all just acts like a big spring, pulpits and stanchions etc, just bend.
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Old 22-11-2014, 12:22   #12
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Re: Lashing for the HMPE Lifelines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
I went back to the original turnbuckles. I asked the Johnson people if they would be strong enough, they said sure. When you snag your lifelines on a pier or something nothing usually breaks, it all just acts like a big spring, pulpits and stanchions etc, just bend.
Bingo.

The pulpit will generally bend at about 1000-1500 pounds. Thus, the important failures are:
  • Pulling a pulpit foot out of the deck and making a big hole. Bad when the weather is rough. This is why big backing plates are needed, so they collapse but do not pull out.
  • Chafe due to poor stanchion preparation. Easily solved with chafe guards and/or polishing. All of the failures had rough holes caused by bare wire.
  • Chafe and burn-through (sheets running across rail). I believe the only known failures are on Maxis, but it is worth watching.
  • UV. Depends on sizing and geography. About 5-7% per year loss in strength. HMPE lines will only last 3-8 years, vs. >20 for wire. At least that seems to be the consensus, if there is such a thing. Much depends on abuse and installation details. I've seen plenty of wire failures.
Lashing failure is theoretical and WAY down the list of probabilities. Evans researched it, because lashings have more critical applications in other areas of the rig.
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Old 22-11-2014, 12:34   #13
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Re: Lashing for the HMPE Lifelines

We can use a roll of 1/4 amsteel blue (in silver) for many applications, lifeline, topping lift, running backstays etc. can get a 600ft roll at LFS marine for $480. More versatile for us.
Thinwater: what are you using for lashing?
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Old 22-11-2014, 12:38   #14
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Re: Lashing for the HMPE Lifelines

FWIW:

When we switched to Dyneema life lines I worried about chafe in way of the stanchions. My "cure" was to use short sections of "shroud covers" from Davis. This is a split plastic tube, inexpensive and available in many chandleries. I placed a ~ four inch long section at each place the line passed through a stanchion, and it has eliminated the chafe. The sleeve does tend to migrate along the slippery line so that occasional adjustment is needed as one goes along the deck... no big deal. I also put longer bits in the area where genoa sheets rubbed on the lines under some points of sail, with equally good results.

Works for me.

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Old 22-11-2014, 12:45   #15
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Re: Lashing for the HMPE Lifelines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean Girl View Post
We can use a roll of 1/4 amsteel blue (in silver) for many applications, lifeline, topping lift, running backstays etc. can get a 600ft roll at LFS marine for $480. More versatile for us.
Thinwater: what are you using for lashing?
7/64 Amsteel.

Honestly, 1/8" polyester DB would be strong enough to pop the bolts off the pulpit foot, but 1/8" PDB is a little too easy to cut. No reasonable lashing will fail, but a single strand can cut, which is why may swear by NUMEROUS half hitches or a fat seizing (to slow things down).
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