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Old 15-11-2015, 09:23   #16
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Re: Keel Nut Removal in the Water

Looks like a SS stud to me...

I think you're totally fine backing the one off and throwing some stainless washers under there... It's (the one stud) not doing anything (clamping force) now anyway!
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Old 15-11-2015, 09:26   #17
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Re: Keel Nut Removal in the Water

AND...

I'm stealing Peter's (roverhi) duplicate post reason:

roverhi
This message has been deleted by roverhi. Reason: duoplicate
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Old 15-11-2015, 12:30   #18
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Re: Keel Nut Removal in the Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Looks like a SS stud to me...

I think you're totally fine backing the one off and throwing some stainless washers under there... It's (the one stud) not doing anything (clamping force) now anyway!
But doesnt the shiny bit on top look gold-colored? Or is this another 'is the dress blue or gold' internet sensation....

Isnt anyone concerned with what looks like weird damage in that second picture?
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Old 15-11-2015, 12:33   #19
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Re: Keel Nut Removal In The Water

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Originally Posted by waterdancer View Post
They looked galvanized to me. Based ob the hull ID this boat seemse to have been salvaged in 1992. It is highly likely that they put it stainless washers and then galvanized washers with nuts. The Stainless rusted away, tha galvanized stayed.
There was no bilge pump. I installed one, and whatever is left after the bilge pump in the sump, is about one or 2 sponges. So there is no reason in the future for these bolts and nuts to sit in the water.

How can I check what they are. There is no pitting,


Here is another picture.




This picture, (you should be able to zoom in) shows another problem. The keelbolt is hanging off halfway on the sump wall !!!
But the bolt, nut and washer are in good shape. The discoloration is from sitting for years in water that was full of rust.
At some other time, I will glass in the bottom of the bold and make sure that the washer has a good hold.
The corrosion or deterioration of keel bolts takes place in the area that you cannot see. Judging by the last photo you have a problem that should be investigated during a haulout. There are many different types of bronze, and yes, even bronze keelboats can be affected by galvanic corrosion if they are alloyed with zinc as some bronze is. Stainless keelboats present their own problems from poultice or crevice corrosion. There are some that believe that stainless bolts should not be used underwater for any application.
The bottom line? Haul the boat and find the extent of damage and sleep well at night.
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Old 15-11-2015, 12:54   #20
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Re: Keel Nut Removal in the Water

If that were MY boat, I would definitely do as Stumble recommended,

- Quote: "First, if you have a rust problem in your keel bolts you need to drop the keel and find out what's going on, not just replace a bad washer. It may be nothing, but you could be looking at the leading edge of a major problem. There is no way to know without disassembly." - end quote.

That is a nasty looking situation and I would definitely want to know for sure if the studs are solid or corroded, and take the necessary action to correct the problem. As others have said, there are too many possibilities of further damage or disaster doing it any other way.

Not that I classify myself as an expert, but I would NOT identify these as "bolts" ... I would refer to them as STUDS ... My reason for doing so is because BOLTS have a head on them and we are looking at the opposite end of the bolt if that were the case, and what we see in the photo makes me think they are threaded into the keel ... however, I will bend to other opinions, only IF you can explain HOW the head of a BOLT is attached to the keel???
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Old 15-11-2015, 13:03   #21
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Re: Keel Nut Removal in the Water

They could be J-bolts, which are cast into the keel.
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Old 15-11-2015, 13:19   #22
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Re: Keel Nut Removal in the Water

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Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599 View Post

Not that I classify myself as an expert, but I would NOT identify these as "bolts" ... I would refer to them as STUDS ... My reason for doing so is because BOLTS have a head on them and we are looking at the opposite end of the bolt if that were the case, and what we see in the photo makes me think they are threaded into the keel ... however, I will bend to other opinions, only IF you can explain HOW the head of a BOLT is attached to the keel???
The same way bolts are used in many other assemblies.

On my boat, the shorter bolts are flatheads with a corresponding countersink on the underside of the keel. The longer ones (some almost two feet) are threaded at each end, with a flat countersink under the keel to hold the nut and washer. All covered in fairing.
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Old 15-11-2015, 13:23   #23
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Re: Keel Nut Removal in the Water

Yes, Terra Nova, they could be J-bolts, which would make them just about impossible to remove or change ... do you know of any boat builder of repute, or have you ever seen J-bolts used for keel attachment?
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Old 15-11-2015, 13:38   #24
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Re: Keel Nut Removal in the Water

FWIW, I had new SS plates, washers & nuts put on my T10 keel's J-Bolts when a leak developed under one of them. Guy came down with a torque wrench and the hardware one evening and back the nuts off one at a time, took pictures of the exposed bolts to check for corrosion on each one. Luckily, I didn't have anything significant after 32 years, but made sure each torqued down nicely. 30 minutes later the 5 bolts were done. Then I went off sailing for another 2 years and 6,000 miles without a problem.

Looking at your photo, I would have a stack of 316 or monel washers bedded in 5200 to raise up and seat the nut properly on the washers. And do that very soon.

Redo all of them while your at it, one at a time. I see no need for a haul out here.
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Old 15-11-2015, 13:39   #25
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Re: Keel Nut Removal in the Water

Very common.
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Old 15-11-2015, 13:47   #26
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Keel Nut Removal in the Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599 View Post
Not that I classify myself as an expert, but I would NOT identify these as "bolts" ... I would refer to them as STUDS ... My reason for doing so is because BOLTS have a head on them and we are looking at the opposite end of the bolt if that were the case, and what we see in the photo makes me think they are threaded into the keel ... however, I will bend to other opinions, only IF you can explain HOW the head of a BOLT is attached to the keel???

Some keels have a flange across the top of the keel and use BOLTS thru the flange and hull to attach the keel to the hull. The Cal20 and Ranger26 are examples.

Most boats with bolt on ballast use STUDS molded into or welded onto the top of the ballast, these protrude into the hull at the bottom of a stub keel of some length. This is a weaker configuration but more efficient use of the ballast weight.
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Old 15-11-2015, 15:58   #27
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Re: Keel Nut Removal in the Water

I owned a C&C25 for years...great boat...very well built...know exactly what you are talking about cause mine were the same.

I say go ahead...its one nut, in the middle. If the washer is totally rusted, the nut is holding little or no load right now anyway. I suggest you soak the threads with WD40 for a full day and have a good socket wrench with extension.

You have a great little boat. Enjoy.
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Old 15-11-2015, 17:08   #28
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Re: Keel Nut Removal in the Water

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Originally Posted by hamburking View Post
I owned a C&C25 for years...great boat...very well built...know exactly what you are talking about cause mine were the same.

I say go ahead...its one nut, in the middle. If the washer is totally rusted, the nut is holding little or no load right now anyway. I suggest you soak the threads with WD40 for a full day and have a good socket wrench with extension.

You have a great little boat. Enjoy.
Agree that it's not holding anything now so deal with it. So, Hamburking--are those stainless or bronze Jbolts or through bolted on the C&C25? If Jbolts would you eventually have to sister somehow? Just curious about how people deal with the eventual replacement. Our keelbolts are through bolted with nuts on both ends.

This topic came into my box because I keep a search on "keel bolts" since we have a vendor in the Schooner Chandlery who custom makes bronze keelbolts (threaded both ends if you like) and offers large diameter bronze fasteners there for a good price. I like to let people know about his service. Here's the link to his shop.
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Old 15-11-2015, 17:13   #29
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Re: Keel Nut Removal in the Water

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Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599 View Post
Yes, Terra Nova, they could be J-bolts, which would make them just about impossible to remove or change ... do you know of any boat builder of repute, or have you ever seen J-bolts used for keel attachment?
When I wrote this, I was assuming the head of the J bolt
was embedded in the lead ballast, hence my comment "it would be difficult to remove".
My own experience has only been with studs that are threaded into the ballast ... thinking all external keels were attached the same way.
My own full keeled boat has an encapsulated ballast, so I will not have such a problem with either bolts, or studs.
The only problem I could envisage with mine would be water invasion of the encapsulating glass.
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Old 15-11-2015, 20:07   #30
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Re: Keel Nut Removal in the Water

Proberley can you clean the bilges wit OnOff and a copper bruch. The rust looks normal if there allways water was. After cleaning all the rust collors, you will see a lot more and is there maybe not a troubel at all.😀
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