Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-02-2013, 21:48   #16
Registered User
 
Tropicyachty's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Boat: I have been from 8' sabot to a 65' Ketch. I am over the Norsea 27 and looking for 50'+
Posts: 49
Re: Keel Crack Assesment

Some boats are built in two half's (Ericson comes to mind) and they have been known to open up (Ericson 39 Mid Atlantic comes to mind) and this maybe whats happening to your boat. If your boat has a center seem I would reglass the hell out of it! The Ericson made across and fixed the seem.
__________________

__________________
Tropicyachty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 04:59   #17
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Keel Crack Assesment

On the basis that she is 21 feet and not metres! I suspect you will be in realms of an "innovative solution" , even at the price of longevity of the fix (or the boat?!) and probably also not being good for Cape Horn in Winter. Likely that involves some grinding and some fibreglasing and then Epoxy filler - with the position being reviewed "later"........hopefully a few years later. by the next owner .


(the stuff "you" do is called an innovative solution - when others do the same it is called a Bodge )
__________________

David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 10:12   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Boat: Luders 21
Posts: 13
Re: Keel Crack Assesment

A few updates to this issue. Talked to the surveyor this morning. The current theory is that water could have seeped down into the keel during the winter. The thawing and freezing expanded the keel and cracked this portion. If this is the case, it should be just a grind and glass fix. What considerations should there be about making sure the rest of the keel is dry before finishing the repair. Is there an easy way to dry out the inside?
__________________
Capcadet05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 10:21   #19
Registered User
 
S/V_Surya's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sasafra river,MD
Boat: gulfstar ketch 41 Surya
Posts: 658
Re: Keel Crack Assesment

I do not know where you are but if warm you can drill a small hole at bottom of the keel and let it drain for a few weeks. Then fiberglass the cracked keel. When complete inject some air in the hole you drilled and try to find where it leaked in.
__________________
S/V_Surya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 10:35   #20
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Keel Crack Assesment

The delicate part is the area where the keel attaches to the hull - you will want to inspect the seam, the bolts and the area within for soundness and dryness. (yes, I know, bad English).

If you are about to haul out after each season (as I guess from the images of the boat) then you may be able to do just fine with grinding off the damaged portion, filling, fairing and laminating over the damage. That's if you find the damage to be limited to a specific area. After season you will wash and dry the boat then the moment she is dry you may drill small inspection holes towards the bottom part of the keel (all this assuming the keel is laminated over, not painted over). If any water sips out - means it was under the laminate. Then you will decide how much repair and of what kind she asks for. PS and do not forget to fill, fair and laminate the inspection holes after all ;-)

BTW A lovely boat you got. Very pretty and will sail very well too.

Perhaps you could post some images of the damage/repair for other CF members to learn?

Cheers,
b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 10:38   #21
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,363
Re: Keel Crack Assesment

It sounds like it is a glass encapsulated keel. If so, on that boat I would just do a good job of grinding/relaminating the problem and go sailing. Drill a few hole lower down to see if any water drains out. Reseal them and call it a day.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 10:43   #22
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: north carolina
Boat: command yachtsdouglas32
Posts: 3,113
Re: Keel Crack Assesment

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
The delicate part is the area where the keel attaches to the hull - you will want to inspect the seam, the bolts and the area within for soundness and dryness. (yes, I know, bad English).

If you are about to haul out after each season (as I guess from the images of the boat) then you may be able to do just fine with grinding off the damaged portion, filling, fairing and laminating over the damage. That's if you find the damage to be limited to a specific area. After season you will wash and dry the boat then the moment she is dry you may drill small inspection holes towards the bottom part of the keel (all this assuming the keel is laminated over, not painted over). If any water sips out - means it was under the laminate. Then you will decide how much repair and of what kind she asks for. PS and do not forget to fill, fair and laminate the inspection holes after all ;-)

BTW A lovely boat you got. Very pretty and will sail very well too.

Perhaps you could post some images of the damage/repair for other CF members to learn?

Cheers,
b.
I was wondering when someone might comment about this boats good looks, nice sheer and overall sweet lines...
__________________
tropicalescape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 10:54   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,363
Re: Keel Crack Assesment

Just looked at the Sailboatdata stuff. Wow, didnt realize Rawson ever made these boats. Rawson was a commercial fishing boat builder that got into building the rawson 26 (thunderbird) and 30 in the late 60's. It's likely that ballast might even be cement... thus a freezing expansion issue.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 15:11   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Boat: Luders 21
Posts: 13
Re: Keel Crack Assesment

Thanks for all the great info folks! The current plan is to grind down and glass over, as well as drill a hole or two in the bottom to drain. Is there any consideration if it is a cement core? If it is cement and expanding is an issue, just short of replacing the keel, is there a solution? I am thinking about starting a blog on the restoration work and will keep you posted. I want to restore this boat to have a classic day sailor look. Considering going the teak deck (I know nasty labor monster, but I have the time) route.
__________________
Capcadet05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 15:17   #25
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,363
Re: Keel Crack Assesment

If cement, it may be that it has done most/all the expanding it is going to do by now. I wouldnt worry too much over it. Make sure where the keel is laminated to hull looks sound. I have seen one Rawson 30 over the years with a bulge on the keel. (I tend to look at them whenever I see them as it was my first real cruising boat.) If that is a fiberglass keel, it looks so narrow that it was likely built in two halves (how else would you do it?) like a rudder. It was probably not a heavy layup to start with being a daysailor and the hydrolic cement expanded just enough to split the seam. (alot of assumptions here!)
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 15:41   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Boat: Luders 21
Posts: 13
Re: Keel Crack Assesment

So an update. Finally took a detailed look at it today. The crack is only about 1/4" at the widest point and no more then 4 inches long. Should I:

A. Dry it out, fill then fill in the void with epoxy and then one layer of glass

or
B. Grind it out (losing the shape of the front keel to easily apply epoxy) to check and see extensive damage. Then relay epoxy and fiberglass all over. If I do this really don't know how much to lay and how far back to keep and maintain the keel nose shape.
__________________
Capcadet05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 16:24   #27
Registered User
 
sailvayu's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Fort Myers FL
Boat: Irwin 40
Posts: 878
Re: Keel Crack Assesment

The LUDERS 21 was sold as a cheap kit boat and it was made and sold in 2 halves to make shipping cheaper. (yeah I am old enough to remember the ads in PS) This is likely just a split at the seam, but you should investigate if there is rust in the keel. If there is no sign of rusting I would just glass it up and go sailing. keep it in perspective this is a little coastal day sailor not an offshore boat.
__________________
Capt. Wayne Canning, AMS
www.projectboat.info
http://sailvayu.com/
sailvayu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 17:49   #28
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Keel Crack Assesment

Quote:
Originally Posted by tropicalescape View Post
I was wondering when someone might comment about this boats good looks, nice sheer and overall sweet lines...
Yep. Why sail ugly boats when the pretty ones can sail this well?

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 17:53   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,363
Re: Keel Crack Assesment

Dry it out. Grind the area and back toward aft a few inches down to good clean glass. Apply laminating resin (or epoxy) to the bare glass, Build up a few layers of glass, tapering as you wrap it around toward the aft. Grind it smooth and fill in any voids , bubbles etc with marine bondo etc.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 21:59   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Boat: Luders 21
Posts: 13
Re: Keel Crack Assesment

wayne thanks for the great research! this is what I suspected but needed confirmed. So hard to find info on these boats since there are not that many of them. real shame, they really are quite good looking boats.
__________________

__________________
Capcadet05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
keel

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:47.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.