Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-02-2015, 08:04   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Diego
Boat: Pearson 39-2 "Sea Story"
Posts: 1,109
JABSCO joker valve, again!

When we moved aboard last fall, I replaced the joker valve and had to re-replace it after about ten days. The second time, I rebuilt the whole pump. Now it is five months later and looking like I have to replace the joker valve again. WHAT ARE WE DOING WRONG?? (besides having a JABSCO)

The routine:
-We don't put any paper in the toilet
-We pump out weekly, including flushing fresh water through the system and rinsing by filling the holding tank through the pump out.
-Once a month I put vinegar in the system, pumping it out one pump every 5-10 minutes (I just re-read some of Peggy Hall's comments and perhaps we should be doing this more often?)
-Every 2-4 weeks, I put oil in the system. Without the oil, it becomes so hard to pump that you can imagine the O ring rolling up and down, rather than sliding. I have been using leftover cutting board oil, which is a mineral oil with added vitamin E, so basically baby oil. From reading a Practical Sailor review, perhaps I should be using cooking oil, instead? They specified that the joker valve in their testing was more resistant to olive than corn oil.
__________________

__________________
Greenhand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 08:14   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
Re: JABSCO joker valve, again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenhand View Post
WHAT ARE WE DOING WRONG?? (besides having a JABSCO)
It could be that simple. I finally gave up on Jabsco and replaced with Raritan about 5 years ago. They still require joker valve replacement as well as seals, but they are better engineered products, IMHO. I have no regrets for making the switch.

Dave
__________________

__________________
2Hulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 08:40   #3
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,319
Re: JABSCO joker valve, again!

how do you pump after each use, maybe you just aren't getting a good enough flush, especially if your tank is higher that the head
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 08:42   #4
Registered User
 
ranger42c's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 42' Sportfish
Posts: 2,985
Re: JABSCO joker valve, again!

Hard to imagine. What exactly is the symptom of failure? Back-flow into the bowl? Or...?

Our previous Jabsco joker valve lasted about 7 seasons, mostly weekend use with a couple 2-week sessions each year.

Our system is electric and fresh water flush, though, so maybe enough different from yours that comparison doesn't work.

FWIW, I'd have though pump rebuilding and joker valve replacing would be about two separate problems?

Another: Is there something about your discharge that isn't joker friendly? Uphill all the way, no loop, etc., something like that?

-Chris
__________________
Selby Bay, South River, Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 08:50   #5
Registered User
 
leftbrainstuff's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Francisco and Australia
Boat: Liberty 458
Posts: 1,979
Re: JABSCO joker valve, again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenhand View Post
When we moved aboard last fall, I replaced the joker valve and had to re-replace it after about ten days. The second time, I rebuilt the whole pump. Now it is five months later and looking like I have to replace the joker valve again. WHAT ARE WE DOING WRONG?? (besides having a JABSCO)

The routine:
-We don't put any paper in the toilet
-We pump out weekly, including flushing fresh water through the system and rinsing by filling the holding tank through the pump out.
-Once a month I put vinegar in the system, pumping it out one pump every 5-10 minutes (I just re-read some of Peggy Hall's comments and perhaps we should be doing this more often?)
-Every 2-4 weeks, I put oil in the system. Without the oil, it becomes so hard to pump that you can imagine the O ring rolling up and down, rather than sliding. I have been using leftover cutting board oil, which is a mineral oil with added vitamin E, so basically baby oil. From reading a Practical Sailor review, perhaps I should be using cooking oil, instead? They specified that the joker valve in their testing was more resistant to olive than corn oil.
Try vinegar once a week.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
leftbrainstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 08:50   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Diego
Boat: Pearson 39-2 "Sea Story"
Posts: 1,109
Re: JABSCO joker valve, again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
Hard to imagine. What exactly is the symptom of failure? Back-flow into the bowl? Or...?

Our previous Jabsco joker valve lasted about 7 seasons, mostly weekend use with a couple 2-week sessions each year.

Our system is electric and fresh water flush, though, so maybe enough different from yours that comparison doesn't work.

FWIW, I'd have though pump rebuilding and joker valve replacing would be about two separate problems?

Another: Is there something about your discharge that isn't joker friendly? Uphill all the way, no loop, etc., something like that?

-Chris
According to Practical Sailor, JABSCO valves are the most resilient, even if people think the heads themselves are less than ideal. I certainly haven't seen anyone else needing to change them once a quarter!

Yes, the problem we are having is backflow. A couple of weeks before we started getting backflow, we heard air bubbling back in, though. It doesn't seem to happen all the time, but it is happening more and more frequently over the last week or so. The discharge hoses all seem in proper order, including the vented loop. I guess we could, and should, check them again.

As for the pump, well, I was desperate: I didn't want to be messing with the head every two weeks!!
__________________
Greenhand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 08:53   #7
Registered User
 
ranger42c's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 42' Sportfish
Posts: 2,985
Re: JABSCO joker valve, again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenhand View Post

Yes, the problem we are having is backflow. A couple of weeks before we started getting backflow, we heard air bubbling back in, though. It doesn't seem to happen all the time, but it is happening more and more frequently over the last week or so. The discharge hoses all seem in proper order, including the vented loop. I guess we could, and should, check them again.

So your discharge route is out through the joker, immediately up and over a loop, then down into the holding tank?

-Chris
__________________
Selby Bay, South River, Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 09:03   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: somewhere in Mexico
Boat: 99 Island Packet 380
Posts: 203
Re: JABSCO joker valve, again!

I'd guess that the oil is causing the rubber in the valve to deteriorate. Is the texture different from a new one, or mis-shapen?
__________________
John
s/v Nakamal
azsailor12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 09:14   #9
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: SW Florida
Boat: Hunter 30
Posts: 83
Re: JABSCO joker valve, again!

FWIW On another forum people swore that Raritan joker valves were made of better material than Jabsco. I have a Raritan head and no problems for the last 2 years.
__________________
sailm8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 09:19   #10
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,319
Re: JABSCO joker valve, again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenhand View Post

Yes, the problem we are having is backflow.
Well that suggests that there is nothing wrong with the joker valve. The problem is that it is backflowing and probably not getting flushed enough so the pH in the line stays high and the valve scales.

The lines can hold a lot more than what one for think. We rarely use our forward head (like maybe 6 times/year) yet last year those are the hoses than went bad. That head has to pump up and when I calculated the volume of the hose it was over 1-gal. So that line would need more than that to flush.

If your system has to pump up you need to flush it much more, replace the valve frequently, of make more use of acid/vinegar (and vinegar is not the best choice).
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 09:20   #11
Sponsoring Vendor
 
HopCar's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Miami Florida
Boat: Ellis Flybridge 28
Posts: 3,163
Re: JABSCO joker valve, again!

You shouldn't need to put salad dressing in a marine toilet. The cylinder should be greased about once a year with a silicone or Teflon grease that won't hurt rubber.
I don't think vinegar hurts anything but it really doesn't help much either. I wonder if it will remove the grease?

I think you have a problem elsewhere. Start at the tank vent and work your way back to the toilet. Look for partial blockages. A blocked vent will put back pressure on the joker valve causing it to fail early.
__________________
Hopkins-Carter Marine Supplies & Fishing Tackle
What You Need, at the Price You Want...with Service!
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 09:31   #12
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,427
Re: JABSCO joker valve, again!

Make sure you are installing the joker valve correctly.

What else are you using to clean your head? We only use Raritan CP. We keep a spray bottle full of KO that is used to spray the bowl after every utilization.

The Raritan CP contains a lubricating agent so you do not need to oil in the head. Using some types of oil can cause unwanted build up and result in exactly what you do not want to happen. We treat the pump piston with synthetic grease periodically.
__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 09:31   #13
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,434
Images: 25
Re: JABSCO joker valve, again!

We have an early version Jabsco head that just keeps going and going. One thing I learned early on was that the ring securing Joker Valves should not be over tightened which evidently seems to distort the valve in some manner. We do use a head-lube roughly once a month and do apply a little silicon grease to the pump shaft periodically. We also keep a squeeze bottle with a solution of "Salt-Away" and fresh water in each of the heads and, once the bowls have been thoroughly cleared after use, put a few squirts of the solution in the bowls and give the heads a few more pumps to get the mix into the lines. We've been following this routine for the last 12 years and have had good, trouble-free, performance.

FWIW...
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 13:11   #14
Registered User

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 666
Re: JABSCO joker valve, again!

Check that the holding tank vent is not blocked. Check for scale buildup in the bottom of the bowl. Using vinegar will loosen this and it can break away in lumps that can get stuck in the valve. Pump at least 15 pumps after any type of usage. Use fresh water to flush if possible.

If the joker valve is smooth , not sticky and the edges of the valve touch each other when you hold it up to the light, then it's probably not the valve. My most common fault is calcium buildup on the inner faces of the valve lips. Scrape that away and check that the lips seal.
Make sure that users aren"t using the toilet as a waste bin
__________________
dlymn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 13:26   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Diego
Boat: Pearson 39-2 "Sea Story"
Posts: 1,109
Re: JABSCO joker valve, again!

Step 1: I just used the muriatic acid. I was expecting bubbles and gunk, but not the black powder that floats so well I had to wipe it out of the bowl, even after a third attempt at washing it down with warm fresh water. <heebeejeebees>

Step 2: Check the siphon valve...perhaps it was my overactive imagination, but I swear I had to break the vacuum to get it out. And I had to squeeze more than remember to open up the lips. Also soaking in muriatic acid at this point. Surely the brown stuff I got on my hands was rust...

I believe that any further troubleshooting will require that I wait until tomorrow, when we can pump out.
__________________

__________________
Greenhand is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
jabsco

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jabsco Joker Valve mestrezat Construction, Maintenance & Refit 40 21-10-2014 07:50
jabsco joker valve an annual replacement? Bob on OTTER Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 49 15-05-2013 06:51
Leaky Joker Valve off-the-grid Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 11 13-05-2011 17:30
Raritan Joker Valve Therapy Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 22 27-01-2010 20:50



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:51.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.