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Old 26-08-2015, 17:19   #16
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Re: I've got the gelcoat blues...

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
...... couple ounces at a time makes the bottom of the can appear way faster than I would like...
Ounces at a time? I don't think we are talking about the same things. The tints I have used need extremely small amounts to effect quite large changes. You don't want to be adding ounces of this stuff for a small repair.

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Old 26-08-2015, 17:20   #17
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Re: I've got the gelcoat blues...

minaret-
"the surrounding area will have had all oxidation/discoloration removed by wet sanding, bringing back the original color."
I'll take your word on it but I'm surprised. Since gelcoat is translucent (never met an uncored hull you couldn't see light through) the UV should be doing damage and changing the color all the way through it. Perhaps only subtly, but the red and yellow pigments are still infamous for taking UV degradation.
The folks at Pittsburgh Paint used to say they had over 4000 colors of "red", and that they actually employed people who could tell them apart and match them by eye.
There's something to be said for repainting the hull.(G)
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Old 26-08-2015, 17:30   #18
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Re: I've got the gelcoat blues...

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
minaret-
"the surrounding area will have had all oxidation/discoloration removed by wet sanding, bringing back the original color."
I'll take your word on it but I'm surprised. Since gelcoat is translucent (never met an uncored hull you couldn't see light through) the UV should be doing damage and changing the color all the way through it. Perhaps only subtly, but the red and yellow pigments are still infamous for taking UV degradation.
The folks at Pittsburgh Paint used to say they had over 4000 colors of "red", and that they actually employed people who could tell them apart and match them by eye.
There's something to be said for repainting the hull.(G)


Certainly this is sometimes true, but in my experience only with boats with extremely severe oxidation. The sort you wouldn't even try this on. Perhaps the UV inhibitors in the surface layer are doing their jobs?
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Old 01-09-2015, 05:54   #19
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Re: I've got the gelcoat blues...

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I don't know gelcoats, I do know colors. That's generically called a "chrome yellow", i.e. yellow based on chromium. Also called "taxi yellow" "schoolbus yellow" and, from the folks at Kodak who were supposed to know about colors, "Eastman Orange" the color of their film packages. Orange--not yellow--they say.


The yellow and red pigments of ALL kinds are the ones that are most actively degraded by UV in sunlight, and paint shops all say they are the hardest colors to match, because once they've had a few years in the sun, nothing "factory" will match them any more.


The advice to send a chip into someone with a spectro-photometry machine is the best way to go. These machines are cheap and common these days (rare and expensive 25 years ago!) and with a competent operator, they will get you closer to the matching color than anything else. You may still have to work a wide area and feather the color into the old one, rather than working in small spots on the hull.


And then if course, even if it is a perfect match in daylight, when seen at night under sodium lights or other lamp sources dockside? It may not match. That's a whole other world of pain, hopefully not a big concern for you.
Thanks for postin' to the thread HS!
The beauty of this hull at least... Is that it's in pristine shape... AND... All of the repairs are being done under the chine on the bottom... Color is fairly consistent, the only UV exposure would be from bouncing off the sand bottom in the Keys...

The only place I can discern any UV fading even though it's still glossy is the flat stern... I've been throwin' match smudges on all sides and under just to see the differences...

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Ideally when doing a gel repair, the surrounding area will have had all oxidation/discoloration removed by wet sanding, bringing back the original color. Sometimes the whole hull might need to be wet sanded to restore original color.

Here's a Plan B method:

If you can't quite match the color absolutely perfectly, but only say 95%, try a duratec blend. Spray first three coats as normal, then dry sand flat 400. Then mix 20% duratec clear into your match, and spray out past your repair 4". Then do 40% duratec and a further 4", of course being sure you have prepped far enough. Work up to 80% duratec, which will put you out about 16". Blend as usual. The color will slowly fade from original to your match. I usually only do this on extremely tricky reds and yellows, they are already translucent enough for this to really work. Have done a number of repairs only I could find this way, including Donzi Red, the hardest color in the whole world to match.


There is also such a thing as a color matching light. They are pricey, and most people have never seen one.

Amazon.com: 3M Sun Gun Color Matching Light Kit: Automotive
Duratec was my plan.... Uh... "P"

I passed on it this time (attempt) because you kinda poo poo'd it for unknown solvents, possible color change to cure.... and Stabilization when compared to the unrepaired sections... I suppose I could add a dose of clear to the tinted gel and respray if I didn't love the blending after a polish out... ?

On plan "O" now... or is that OH!.... I already completed step Doh! with Homer like results...

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Ounces at a time? I don't think we are talking about the same things. The tints I have used need extremely small amounts to effect quite large changes. You don't want to be adding ounces of this stuff for a small repair.

Mark
Mark..We were talking gel there not tint... Imma split a mixing stick 6 ways guy like minaret to make flat toothpicks for tint dabbling...
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Old 01-09-2015, 06:15   #20
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Re: I've got the gelcoat blues...

The longer I know minaret, the more things he makes me do things that make me wanna cry... I did not have the fortitude to hold a measuring tape next to the hole while taking the picture....



edit: that's gravel and my "Four Seasons" pool lounge reflection in the uber glossy hull... not dust...
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Old 01-09-2015, 11:46   #21
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Re: I've got the gelcoat blues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
The longer I know minaret, the more things he makes me do things that make me wanna cry... I did not have the fortitude to hold a measuring tape next to the hole while taking the picture....



edit: that's gravel and my "Four Seasons" pool lounge reflection in the uber glossy hull... not dust...


I assume you made an arrangement with GCP first?
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Old 01-09-2015, 12:34   #22
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Re: I've got the gelcoat blues...

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
I assume you made an arrangement with GCP first?
Why yes... As a matter of fact I did...

They really seem to know their stuff... And are pretty good guys... You neglected however to mention that I would barely have enough change to cover the 55 gal drum of vaseline required for the transaction...

All in all, it will be worth it at just about any price to get over this hump! (no pun intended I can assure you) Everything's done except for the gel...

Oh... and the extra hole in the hull....

Maybe I'll just put in a thru hull for a deep fat fryer drain... You got a lead on any hi temp macerators???
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Old 01-09-2015, 12:38   #23
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Re: I've got the gelcoat blues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Why yes... As a matter of fact I did...

They really seem to know their stuff... And are pretty good guys... You neglected however to mention that I would barely have enough change to cover the 55 gal drum of vaseline required for the transaction...

All in all, it will be worth it at just about any price to get over this hump! (no pun intended I can assure you) Everything's done except for the gel...

Oh... and the extra hole in the hull....

Maybe I'll just put in a thru hull for a deep fat fryer drain... You got a lead on any hi temp macerators???

It's a marine transaction, I figured you'd have the drum on hand (to bend you over) and be pre lubed.


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Old 02-09-2015, 04:30   #24
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Re: I've got the gelcoat blues...

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
It's a marine transaction, I figured you'd have the drum on hand (to bend you over) and be pre lubed.

Oh I have the drum like everybody else... I just didn't have enough on hand so to speak to cover the transaction!

When I called to discuss the arrangements, I was under the impression it was $47 for the quart... Pretty average for retail... Oh no........ ONE forty seven... + $20 to ship... So $170 a quart...

So I opted for the very reasonable.... "If I needed a whole gallon bulk rate" $210

The neigborhood should soon be teeming with yellow dogs, cats, squirrels...
Or...

I gotta 'nuther boat that could use a spraying... As long as I like yellow... Or orange... Or green... Or brown...

***wonders if I can push it all the way to purple***
I could get some metalflake... and clear... and some of that chrome strip stuff from the beaner aisle in Autozone...
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:48   #25
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Re: I've got the gelcoat blues...

I no longer own a fibreglass boat and probably never will again, but I have to say what great posts from Minaret.

For an industry professional to take the time to answer in such detail and explain how the pros do things is fantastic.

Thanks Minaret .
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Old 02-09-2015, 07:34   #26
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Re: I've got the gelcoat blues...

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I no longer own a fibreglass boat and probably never will again
Are you implying that by not having a fiberglass boat, you forgo the need for a barrel of vaseline in this industry?

Looking for aluminum catamarans right now…

Mark
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Old 02-09-2015, 09:54   #27
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Re: I've got the gelcoat blues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
I no longer own a fibreglass boat and probably never will again, but I have to say what great posts from Minaret.

For an industry professional to take the time to answer in such detail and explain how the pros do things is fantastic.

Thanks Minaret .
No doubt...
Absolutely amazing how unselfish minaret is with his expertise that took him years to acquire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Are you implying that by not having a fiberglass boat, you forgo the need for a barrel of vaseline in this industry?

Looking for aluminum catamarans right now…

Mark
Mark,

Buy two... I'm good for it...
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Old 02-09-2015, 10:33   #28
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Re: I've got the gelcoat blues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Oh I have the drum like everybody else... I just didn't have enough on hand so to speak to cover the transaction!

When I called to discuss the arrangements, I was under the impression it was $47 for the quart... Pretty average for retail... Oh no........ ONE forty seven... + $20 to ship... So $170 a quart...

So I opted for the very reasonable.... "If I needed a whole gallon bulk rate" $210

The neigborhood should soon be teeming with yellow dogs, cats, squirrels...
Or...

I gotta 'nuther boat that could use a spraying... As long as I like yellow... Or orange... Or green... Or brown...

***wonders if I can push it all the way to purple***
I could get some metalflake... and clear... and some of that chrome strip stuff from the beaner aisle in Autozone...

This is actually quite reasonable when you do the math. I usually allow three hours in an estimate for color matching, much more for a tricky color like that. Until very recently, I was managing a yard with a $98/hr rate. Now Ive gone solo, so I can bill at more reasonable rates, but you still will have gotten off easy if it's a close match. It likely will be.
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Old 02-09-2015, 10:36   #29
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Re: I've got the gelcoat blues...

Anytime, guys. By going solo, I'm even trying to reduce the Vaseline effect. I couldn't bear running the yard, never made a respected 70 year old man cry until I managed a money hungry yard...
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Old 02-09-2015, 13:58   #30
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Re: I've got the gelcoat blues...

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
This is actually quite reasonable when you do the math. I usually allow three hours in an estimate for color matching, much more for a tricky color like that. Until very recently, I was managing a yard with a $98/hr rate. Now Ive gone solo, so I can bill at more reasonable rates, but you still will have gotten off easy if it's a close match. It likely will be.
I'm totally kidding...

I was adding apples and bananas... and trying to make it comical...

Walk into any store to buy a quart, it's $50.. A hundred for a pro to match it... DANG cheap...

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Anytime, guys. By going solo, I'm even trying to reduce the Vaseline effect. I couldn't bear running the yard, never made a respected 70 year old man cry until I managed a money hungry yard...
Well ... you made me cry... 1st time was when you said there were no shortcuts for getting 1/8" of bottom paint off a 50' boat... Something to the effect of "get a soft pad and a big box of 36 ..." Or of course spend $$...

Congrats on the solo path... Word of mouth of course is your second biggest asset behind your skillz... Don't "perfection" yourself into the poor house...
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