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Rob Toronto · 05-12-2011, 16:58

I've got a line on an older Hughes 40 for what I think is an excellent price, although there are some serious deficiencies that would need to be addressed. Cosmetically she looks quite good, but when I inquired about her, this is the response I got from the dealer.

"This boat was originally listed for $70K. We recently had an offer subject to a survey. The surveyor discovered quite a few issues and the purchaser decided not to continue with the survey for the purchase of this boat."

The partial survey states; "I had inspected the hull, running gear, decks and superstructure when the client arrived...". "There are issues with compressed motor mounts, fuel system, throughulls, the propane stove, DC system and virtually none of the AC system met any required standard."
"Upon beginning the survey of the internal structural elements it was discovered that the main mast support consisted of a corroded steel shoe mounted over a block of wood jammed under the shoe with no means of securement and a transverse steel floor member that was so corroded it could be pulled apart by hand."
At that point the potential buyer <quite understandably> called off the survey, and withdrew his offer.

I'm very handy, I've done plumbing, roofing, carpentry (rough and finished), metalwork, welding, repaired, and rebuilt gas engines (no diesel experience), done fiberglass repair work, simple AC electrical installation, and built computers and electric bikes from scratch. Please note my total lack of boatbuilding experience

IF you can't guess by now, my questions are as follows:

1/ Is it even worth a look, or should I run?

2/ If I do most (if not all) the work myself, take a wild guess how much the above deficiencies would cost to repair? (in time and $)

3/ And would you trust her at sea after the repairs?

I realize that there is probably a lot more that needs attention that isn't mentioned, but I figured that if the repair of these items is reasonable, I'd go and have a good look at her.

Any opinions, suggestions or insights are appreciated.

**David M** · 05-12-2011, 17:05

If you have the time then a project boat can be a good idea. But you need to arm yourself with the right knowledge.

If you think you are interested then hire a good marine surveyor to do a survey. Then take the boat to a really good boatyard and have the experts there take a look at the survey. Have them give you a description of what needs to be done.....pay them for their time of course. Then you have a good starting point to do the work yourself. You will have a much clearer idea of what needs to be done and a better idea of how to do it. If you run into questions or problems then that same yard can give you advice, for free usually, if you haul there. Most boat yards are okay with owners doing their own work, but not all yards.

Charlie · 05-12-2011, 17:05

Even though you might pick it up for a good price just the parts maybe more then the boat is worth. You'd have to make a list and see if the problems are parts intensive or labor intensive.

zeta · 05-12-2011, 17:09

Never hurts to look, but seems it needs a lot of work and we do not know the asking price. If you don't mind doing some work here is a 43ft Gulfstar for 12K..Gulfstar 43 ctr cockpit ketch Gulfstar 43 ctr cockpit ketch | eBay

Vasco · 05-12-2011, 17:16

How much do you know about boats? Granted you have certain skills and they can be very helpful but what do you know about boats. They are different from houses. Having said this, if the price is right ( free) and you have the time and some guidance, by all means, it may be for you. I think a major factor in this project will be time. Boat repairs usually take ten times more time than initially estimated. Myself, I would run a mile. I recently posted in another thread a buddy had bought a Hughes 38 with a new diesel for under $10,000. It was in sailing condition, old sails, old rigging but nothing alarming. I guess the question is do you want to sail or build?

Rob Toronto · 05-12-2011, 17:54

Man, you guys are fast! lol.
Thanks, some good advice.
" If you don't mind doing some work here is a 43ft Gulfstar for 12K.." If it were a little closer, I might consider it. Thanks anyway

" I guess the question is do you want to sail or build?" Ah, there is the question... I'd prefer to sail away, but I was thinking if I bought something that was in need of some work, I wouldn't have the big one time cash outlay, I'd learn the systems inside and out, and refit to our needs. As well, my wife and I have a plan. We are committed to living aboard full time come August 2013, with an eye on cruising 3-5 years after that when I retire. Long story short, We are looking at a long term investment. If I have to forfeit the 2012 season, so be it. But in the end I want a seaworthy vessel when we are done. Some of the repairs sound pretty serious to me, especially the floor member, and mast 'shoe'. Is it as bad as it sounds?

Capt Phil · 05-12-2011, 18:09

Having owned and rebuilt a few boats, just from the surveyors scant observations, I would put as much distance as I could between the boat you are looking at and yourself. It is a buyers market and you can do do much better than what you are looking at. There are many well found used vessels on the market right now and the buyers are willing to deal. Don't be put off by distance between yourself and a prospective find. A couple of calls can give you ball park figure on shipping costs. If you plan on living aboard, make sure you scope out available liveaboard moorage in your area before you buy. Also, if you plan to liveaboard through a few Canadian winters, think about heating and insulation... it does get chilly in January! Good luck with your search... Capt Phil

S/V Alchemy · 05-12-2011, 18:14

There's an Irwin 37 ketch in decent running order at Marina Quay West listed for $33K. Owner will part with it for less than that. A Hughes 40 that's destroyed in the frames and stringers is likely totally buggered. Run away. Just from what you've said, it sounds ready for the chainsaw at the far end of Outer Harbour Marina. Unfortunately, that day is probably two or three dreamy-eyed chumps away.

I bought a custom steel boat with "good bones". It is far more satisfying to install new stuff and finish up good work than to have to undo the ravages of age and neglect, and THEN to upgrade the boat to "won't burst into flames/sink upon contact with water" condition.

It is very, very hard for a novice to boats (even a tradesman) to spot the difference between "rundown but sound" and "waste of time, money and effort that will strangle your sailing dream with a mouthful of sawdust".

I don't usually pimp my blog, but I've been gradually fitting out a "fixer-upper" for three years, and have a couple of years to go. See "www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com" for the gory details. The difference is that before I took my boat out of the water to re-power and re-tank and a million other offshore-type add-ons, we sailed her in gales on Lake Ontario at every opportunity...and nothing broke.

So it's not so much a refit as a "finishing off". You want that kind of boat. This, just from what you've written, is not that boat. Maybe for five grand, sure, and if you have a 45 x 18 x 12 foot shed with heating and 60 amp service to put it in for three years. Sure, then.

P.S. Unless you have minor deity-level powers of scheduling, take the time you think you'll need to refurb the boat and multiply by 2.5 to 3.

**boatman61** · 05-12-2011, 18:14

"Don't walk away Renee.....

Bludi Run.... far n fast......

Rob Toronto · 05-12-2011, 18:27

"Don't walk away Renee.....
Bludi Run.... far n fast.....

Ah, that's what I though, but still, very sad... She was a beauty and almost perfect for what we were looking for. (Except for the falling apart part that is)

tropicalescape · 05-12-2011, 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

There's an Irwin 37 ketch in decent running order at Marina Quay West listed for $33K. Owner will part with it for less than that. A Hughes 40 that's destroyed in the frames and stringers is likely totally buggered. Run away. Just from what you've said, it sounds ready for the chainsaw at the far end of Outer Harbour Marina. Unfortunately, that day is probably two or three dreamy-eyed chumps away.

I bought a custom steel boat with "good bones". It is far more satisfying to install new stuff and finish up good work than to have to undo the ravages of age and neglect, and THEN to upgrade the boat to "won't burst into flames/sink upon contact with water" condition.

It is very, very hard for a novice to boats (even a tradesman) to spot the difference between "rundown but sound" and "waste of time, money and effort that will strangle your sailing dream with a mouthful of sawdust".

I don't usually pimp my blog, but I've been gradually fitting out a "fixer-upper" for three years, and have a couple of years to go. See "www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com" for the gory details. The difference is that before I took my boat out of the water to re-power and re-tank and a million other offshore-type add-ons, we sailed her in gales on Lake Ontario at every opportunity...and nothing broke.

So it's not so much a refit as a "finishing off". You want that kind of boat. This, just from what you've written, is not that boat. Maybe for five grand, sure, and if you have a 45 x 18 x 12 foot shed with heating and 60 amp service to put it in for three years. Sure, then.

P.S. Unless you have minor deity-level powers of scheduling, take the time you think you'll need to refurb the boat and multiply by 2.5 to 3.

Blog didnt work...would like to see it..DVC

LoveMyWoodie · 05-12-2011, 18:57

Now that everone talked you out of it -can you send me the info,and is it about 10 grand?

winterbuoy · 05-12-2011, 18:59

Is this boat at Mimico Cruising Club in Toronto?

Rob Toronto · 05-12-2011, 19:12

She's in Port Credit. Just listed a couple of days ago.
1974 Hughes 40 THIS BOAT IS BEING SOLD AS IS Sail
I figured seeing that they came down as much as they did, I could have got them to come down a bit more

Let me know if you have a look at her. I'm curious.