Is She Worth a Look, or Should I Run in the Other Direction ?

[Vasco]

P.T. Barnum is alive and well.

[Nateman]

Anything is fixable, the question is, do you have the TIME? I bought a basket case 23 foot daysailor and am still trying to finish it two years later... If you are still working full time it's extremely difficult to really bang out a re-fit/re-store.

With that said, go look at her. Talk to some yards and see what it would cost you for storage while you work on her. Put all the figures on paper and go from there! Good luck! Nothing better than shopping for a boat!

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

Blog didnt work...would like to see it..DVC

Just cut and paste

The world encompassed

Thanks,
S/V Alchemy

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Nateman

Nothing better than shopping for a boat!

Sailing one?

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by limejucer

Of course when the valuble items listed include the highly important 10 cd auto changer you wonder why the unimportant through hull is missed. Run man run

The "dimensions" are 40.0 feet. Apparently, this vessel can't afford a third dimension.

The "radar, CD changer..." order of importance speaks to a certain haste to get the thing off the lot, too.

Last comment on this sort of "deal". It could be free: plenty of modest boats are these days, but what is rarely free is a serviced and sheltered space for the several years of evenings and weekends it will take to rehab this to "won't snap in half" standard.

Boats are cheap. Keeping boats can get pricey. They are only reasonable when moving away from land in moderate conditions!

[gjberta]

Rob, I sent you a private message re what in particular to look for in this Hughes.....

Capt. Joseph G. Berta, MMS, CMS
Principal Surveyor
MSOL Marine Surveyors & Consultants
905 955-4449
www.marinesupportonline.com

[Nateman]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Sailing one?

Not sure, I haven't gotten there yet! LOL

[NahanniV]

The only thing on that list of deficiencies that sounds a bit scary is the mast step; But I don't think it's that unusual for a keel stepped mast to eventually need some attention in that area. Do a bit of "Googling" and you will find plenty of examples of people rebuilding mast steps due to corrosion and rot.

Other big ticket items it will likely need are: Rigging, sails and electronics (if you want them), and possibly rudder repair.

The questions you need to ask yourself are:

1/ Will your wife/partner be onboard for a project.

2/ Do you have a place to work on it ? Cheap, close. Many yards will not allow projects.

3/ Do you like doing this kind of work ? Have the time ? Not afraid to get dirty ? Tackle something you don't even know where to begin. Ever done anything similar? Did it work out ?

4/ Can you afford it once it's done ? Check out the costs, summer, winter, membership fees, insurance.

If you can answer yes to most of those questions then go have a look. If you're still interested get a surveyor to go with you and discuss it. If you're still interested buy it at the lowest price possible <$15,000. even if you got it for free you would probably never get your money or time out of it once you are done the work; But hopefully you would have a great boat that you would know intimately and trust.

Cheers,
John.

[winterbuoy]

AS a member of Mimico Cruising Club in Toronto I know this boat and the owner. No way he knew about all the problems it had before that survey, hence the price drop. He is not that mechanically inclined and looked after it the best he could. Yes I've seen it sailing in the past few years but that is no clue for anything. They are honest people and near us dockwise. That being said this boat does need a lot of work and you have to take that into account. I can tell you this, the other members at the club would not think twice about helping or giving advise, with this boat, if the new owner kept it there. It is a well known boat around the club and so are the owners. My 2 cents

[Hotel L]

Rob....my wife and I are pretty much in the same situation. We lucked out, while looking for a project boat, and found a killer deal (repo) on a 1989 boat that flew through survey this last spring. We have dropped over 5k in unexpected repairs/required upgrades + slip, insurance, and nice to have upgrades. There isn't a part of the boat that I haven't had to touch.

2 morals to this story...

1 - There is no cheap "safe" boats. All boats are gonna require constant upkeep. Looking around and knowing people can reduce the investment, but if you go into a huge project it'll cost more than you expect.

2 - Even a good boat will give you more than enough opportunity to "learn the systems"

A really good friend finds free boats and fixes them up. He is constantly second guessing his decisions on project boats. Oh and he has yet to keep a boat or make any real money at it.

I understand some do, but rare in my opinion.

If you really want a project...build from scratch....then you don't have to deal with others coble jobs and old rusty hardware.

[Celestialsailor]

Maybe offer $15K and see what they say. Check to see if there is an owners group. They could have inside information. I found that owning a boat teaches you skills...not learning skills then buying a bout...JMHO

[Vasco]

Rob Toronto,

I see you're in Toronto. Unless you live on a farm somewhere and have a shed you'll have few places to work on a boat. You'll have to pay to transport the boat to your farm. If you join a club it'll cost you for initiation and dues. Most clubs require that the boat be in the water during the summer season. Some clubs allow boats on the hard during the summer and allow the member to work on it. These clubs are few in Toronto and usually to get this permission you should be a long member in good standing. Very few new members are allowed this privilege. Before you embark on a two year project you should check on where you can do this.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by winterbuoy

AS a member of Mimico Cruising Club in Toronto I know this boat and the owner. No way he knew about all the problems it had before that survey, hence the price drop. He is not that mechanically inclined and looked after it the best he could. Yes I've seen it sailing in the past few years but that is no clue for anything. They are honest people and near us dockwise. That being said this boat does need a lot of work and you have to take that into account. I can tell you this, the other members at the club would not think twice about helping or giving advise, with this boat, if the new owner kept it there. It is a well known boat around the club and so are the owners. My 2 cents

I don't think anyone has alleged that the current owner is nefariously trying to fob off a dud...even if it is a dud in terms of major structural repair being needed soon or sooner. But even "nice guys" can't expect to get much for a half-rotten boat. Particularly in this market, sentiment doesn't enter into it. Acquiring a time- and money-pit is a huge ask, because while boats have rarely been cheaper to buy, keeping them on land and under cover with heat and power has rarely been more expensive.

If I had a reasonably insulated barn with just 30 amps within 100 miles of the city, I wouldn't haul out at a club. I would tow my 33 footer there every winter and get more work done. Without that facility to aid my ambition, it's just very, very expensive parking with a few hours of work when it's warm enough to do so.

[Celestialsailor]

I knew there was a reason I left Canada for California and Hawaii!

[Ex-Calif]

Many, many folks want the "most" boat for the least price. Most boat is often described as LOA for living "comfort" and seakindliness for more comfortable passage making.

I have been on boats from dinghies to 53 foot and have been reading posts here for about 4+ years. The desired sweet spot for a mono appears to be 35-45 feet if a couple intends to live aboard full time. Personally my range is 36-40. For me this is a nice range of living space, boat capability, ability to handle with 2 people (1 if necessary) and maintainability in terms of equipment cost.

To minimize the acquisition cost of this boat, one looks for a distressed sale first. The boat is ready to go but the owner has to sell or wants to sell for various reasons. This owner has taken care of the boat, wants it to find a caring new skipper and is willing to discount.

The second is a distressed boat. The buyer is willing to trade labor for price. He looks for a boat that reequires labor, not parts. No one saves a ton on parts unless one has tons of time to work the yard sales/free stuff on Craigs List etc... But basically most folks buy sails, engine parts, electrical parts, winches etc. at retail prices. If the boat being considered has a lot of parts needs, it may not be cheaper than a distressed owner sale at the end of the day.

Boats that need labor more than parts can be a great deal. The buyer has to have a knowledge of boat repair, the time to focus on the repairs, a place to do those repairs and the tools to affect those repairs. Some repairs of this nature can be done "out there" and are not critical to launching but the buyer has to be realistic in assessing time taken to complete the boat.

To me the big stuff remains

- hull
- standing rigging including mast
- sails
- running rigging
- electric and electrical generation
- engine

The boat in question has a partial survey report that says many systems are non-standard to ABYC standards. That would not scare me. I have seen a lot of boats bodged together. I would have to be comfident in my ability to assess these deficiencies and correct "unsafe" rather than just conservative situations.

The partial report says the mast step is unacceptable. This may not be a deal breaker for me. Especially as the boat has been discounted $45k after the partial survey. Something really alarmed the seller, and he has more information than me, like how much he was quoted to fix the step. If this were the only "big ticket" item I may consider the boat pending an inspection by a competent rigger with a repair quote. If the step is bad, how about the mast itself? Is it damaged at the lower end? And of course if the step is beyond useful life, what about other structural items?

Including purchase price, if the goal is to get a 40 foot boat "out there" for $25k. I say no way. $50k maybe. $70k probably realistic. Gonna depend on labor (mine), labor (purchased) and parts.

Depending on skill level I would not blanketly avoid looking at this boat but it does have enough red flags to warrant careful and somewhat expert consideration. I would not fly half way around the world on the chance this is the boat to get. Chances are not great...