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Old 17-08-2016, 18:34   #1
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Is an MSP Adhesive an Alternative to Polyurethanes?

Can anyone confirm or deny MSP adhesives can be used in place of products like 3M 5200, Sika 291, etc.

Basic info:

Modified silane adhesive - MS polymers

I can get Bostik MSP here. I am sick and tired of paying $$ for that 291 (s--t) or $$$ for otherwise excellent 3M.

Thanks in advance,
barnakiel
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Old 17-08-2016, 20:11   #2
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Re: Is an MSP Adhesive an Alternative to Polyurethanes?

[QUOTE=barnakiel;2191734]Can anyone confirm or deny MSP adhesives can be used in place of products like 3M 5200, Sika 291, etc.

Wow, "I'm Doctor Science, I have a masters degree in science", even I don't know.
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Old 17-08-2016, 20:23   #3
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Re: Is an MSP Adhesive an Alternative to Polyurethanes?

It’s a very intriguing question. And honestly I'm quite curious to know. Perhaps it's one best answered by a materials scientist or a chemist, like Leftbrainstuff. But a layman could gather enough information to make a very good educated guess.

I’d want to see both the technical chemical information on the two, which listed their key ingredients. Both for what they’re composed of when in the cartridge, & after they cure. So that you can find out such things as what they use as carrier solvents (if that’s the correct term), which is essentially; the delivery system in a paint (or this adhesive), & what evaporates out of paint as it cures, plus it also chemically etches the surface to which the solids (paint or adhesive) will be bonding to.

Then I’d look at their rated bond strengths to different materials. And how said bond strength holds up at X percent of their stretch capacity, when flexed for 1 million cycles, & 10 million cycles, etc.

How the two compare when exposed to various solvents/chemicals, & environmental degradational factors, when tested as above. What kinds of chemicals they may outgas when subjected to these things. And if any of these outgassing chemicals are damaging to common materials, or humans.

Pretty much, what does it take to sufficiently break down both, & during those processes do they produce any chemicals or reactions which will damage anything that’s a concern to me.

And if both perform pretty closely on all of the above (& 1,001 other tests), then you have a winner.
Or, you can try out the new wonder goop on a few non-critical apps for a few months, & let us know what happens

PS: A molecular analysis & comparison of the two would probably be a good check too.
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Old 17-08-2016, 21:14   #4
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Re: Is an MSP Adhesive an Alternative to Polyurethanes?

I'm not familiar with MSP, but I have used 3M 5200 in the past. Recently I have been using Loctite PL S40 Polyurethane Window and Door and Siding Sealant. It was recommended by a sailor friend of mine. As far as he and I can tell, it is indistinguishable from 5200. It costs less than $6.00 per 10-ounce tube at Home Depot.
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Old 17-08-2016, 22:32   #5
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Re: Is an MSP Adhesive an Alternative to Polyurethanes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Can anyone confirm or deny MSP adhesives can be used in place of products like 3M 5200, Sika 291, etc.
Silyl modified polymers are simply superior as bedding compounds to Dolfinite, 3M 5200, etc.


Easier to work with.


The only aspect I cannot yet personally attest to is longevity - in tropical and sub-tropical conditions, I've found that 3M 5200, Sikaflex, and the like last only 5 to 7 years. I suspect that high temperature, as in how hot the deck gets in the sun, is the culprit.


But I have noted that silyl modified polymer sealant - oddly enough the same brand I now use - is used by all the local auto people who seal windscreens and their rubber gaskets into cars. Since cars and trucks left in the sun get as hot if not hotter than my deck, I figure the testing by others is good enough.


After being introduced to Simson ISR 70-03 by my local boatbuilder, I've used silyl modified polymer (Simson ISR 70-03, a brand owned by Bostik) extensively.


And posted on CF about it before, e.g. Placing Screws in GRP: advice sought.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf US7581505o.pdf (505.0 KB, 50 views)
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Old 18-08-2016, 06:58   #6
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Re: Is an MSP Adhesive an Alternative to Polyurethanes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post


(...)

I’d want to see both the technical chemical information on the two, which listed their key ingredients. Both for what they’re composed of when in the cartridge, & after they cure.

(...)


Unfortunatelly Bostik is not showing their MSP data in English, but I found an equivalent at Tecnite:

http://www.ulbrich.cz/chemical-techn...MSP_13_eng.pdf

http://www.uksealants.co.uk/download...Data-Sheet.pdf

From the above I understand these could be substitutes in many boat applications.

I think I am in for a test.

I will report what I find in about a week.

Thanks and cheers,
b.
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Old 18-08-2016, 07:06   #7
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Re: Is an MSP Adhesive an Alternative to Polyurethanes?

Thank you everybody!

I will test Bostik MSP then.

I will report back once jobs done.

barnakiel
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Old 18-08-2016, 07:52   #8
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Re: Is an MSP Adhesive an Alternative to Polyurethanes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Thank you everybody!

I will test Bostik MSP then.

I will report back once jobs done.

barnakiel
That's great b. In addition to myself I'm sure many other members are interested in your findings. Thank you.
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Old 18-08-2016, 09:54   #9
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Re: Is an MSP Adhesive an Alternative to Polyurethanes?

I second the Locktite Pl S40. I've been using it for years, great stuff. I would stick with 5200 below the water line, as it has been tested and designed for the use.
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Old 18-08-2016, 16:21   #10
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Re: Is an MSP Adhesive an Alternative to Polyurethanes?

I'm reinforcing my foredeck with teak. The product is called FUSE by liquid nails. I think that it is a variation on MM 5200. Whatever it is it cost six bucks a tube and you better not use that if you want to take the pieces apart again. Down here in the Amazonian swamps of North Carolina, it sets up firmly in 5 minutes.
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Old 18-08-2016, 19:23   #11
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Re: Is an MSP Adhesive an Alternative to Polyurethanes?

bostik seal'n'flex 1/class a 50% moovment/waterproof/potable water ok/wood concrete,metal to metal,ceramics,stainless,aluminium,and most plastics,good on hypalon boats as well as pvc/exelent adhesion /does not support fungus/clean up with turpentine/2 year storage unopened/non staining paintable/good boat gloop
$12 au aprox for 380 g caulking tube ( slow cure )fast cure is bostic seal'n'flex fc/the fast cure is fast if you are to slow it will cure in the tube while you are re checking measurements (dont ask) works well tested on other peoples boats first/no room on this boat to carry a choice so tube of white tube of black tube of grey gets used for most things even fabrication of small flexable parts// but is polyurethane sealant /sets like tyre rubber.
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Old 18-08-2016, 23:02   #12
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Re: Is an MSP Adhesive an Alternative to Polyurethanes?

Alan, I'm in a cat in southern reaches of Moreton Bay. Where do you get Simson ISR 70-03?
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Old 18-08-2016, 23:15   #13
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Re: Is an MSP Adhesive an Alternative to Polyurethanes?

Quote:
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Alan, I'm in a cat in southern reaches of Moreton Bay. Where do you get Simson ISR 70-03?
I have two sources (in reverse order of my preference):


* ebay.com.au (and similar sites) often has someone selling a cartridge or three; and


* visit your local installer of replacement car windscreens and make a friend (that's what I do. Then I keep the cartridges in the fridge until needed; and do my best to seal a partially used cartridge and keep it in the fridge until the next job. As you will guess, I tend to save up such jobs so I can do a lot on one day).
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Old 18-08-2016, 23:18   #14
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Re: Is an MSP Adhesive an Alternative to Polyurethanes?

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* visit your local installer of replacement car windscreens and make a friend (that's what I do. Then I keep the cartridges in the fridge until needed; and do my best to seal a partially used cartridge and keep it in the fridge until the next job. As you will guess, I tend to save up such jobs so I can do a lot on one day).
And when I have a tiny job to do, such as bedding a small cleat, I give in and pay one of the local shipwrights/ships' carpenters whom I know uses Simson ISR 70-03.
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Old 18-08-2016, 23:24   #15
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Re: Is an MSP Adhesive an Alternative to Polyurethanes?

For info on using a silyl modified polymer, such as Bostik's Simson ISR 70-03 etc, to bed a teak deck, see:

http://www.bostik.nl/uploads/pdf/641540_Teakdeck_UK.pdf
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