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Old 21-02-2006, 18:07   #1
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Internal painting: Pre-prep

I have started tthe long slow process of "overhauling" down below. The saloon & cabins on my yacht are mostly lined in a rather tired blue carpeting; presumably to minimise condensation in the boats previous home environment.



Down here in Tasmania, the more temperate climate means that condensation is less of a problem, plus I don't like the bright blue colour, so I have started ripping out the carpet, with the intention of painting - probably one of the off-white colours, which, I am hoping, will make the area seem bigger and brighter and more airy.

Leaving aside the tedious process of removing of the glue left underneath the carpet - which is a time consuming business involving kerosene, turpentine and manual scraping, followed by manual sanding...I have a problem for which I hope you all might be able to offer some suggestions:

Where the bulkheads and internal partitions meet the hull or capin, they are glassed in with chopped strand matting/resin. This has been left pretty rough, because it was covered by the carpet. If i just paint over, it will look very ordinary, so I want to "fair-in" with some sort of bog or filler to give a smoother shape to the ply to glass to hull interface, and, hopefully a more professional looking finish after painting.

The question is, what is likely to be an appropriate filler material to use, given that I will be fairing over marine ply, unpainted GRP and painted GRP?
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Old 21-02-2006, 18:19   #2
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Sound to me, that you have your work cut out for you?
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Old 21-02-2006, 18:49   #3
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Glue

Glue can be a one way ticket if it gets in the airways. That is usually from the fumes in the liquid form, but sanding the old stuff may cause a similar problem. Adding solvents to remove it may also cause problems. I would think that removing it in the biggest chunks possible would be the way to go. Or leave it there and cover it. It takes a while to start it burning but, when it does glue can be like a flame thrower. Removing would be best if done safely. Good luck.
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Old 21-02-2006, 18:57   #4
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The glue isn't really the problem - I just rub it down with a 50/50 mix of kero/turps, wait 10 minutes then scrape it off with a good quality paint scraper....then, once it has fully dried, I sand it off by hand to get rid of any remaining residue and remove any scraper scratches. So the glue removal is pretty straightforward - just time consuming.

The problem is the fairing job - that is where I am hoping for advice / suggestions...
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Old 21-02-2006, 19:03   #5
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Re: Glue

Quote:
BC Mike C once whispered in the wind:
Glue can be a one way ticket if it gets in the airways. That is usually from the fumes in the liquid form, but sanding the old stuff may cause a similar problem. Adding solvents to remove it may also cause problems. I would think that removing it in the biggest chunks possible would be the way to go. Or leave it there and cover it. It takes a while to start it burning but, when it does glue can be like a flame thrower. Removing would be best if done safely. Good luck.
Michael
Sorry... don't have much to contribute to this thread, but I'm curious about the health issues related to glue. What forms of glue are dangerous?

Fumes? Epoxy sawdust? Etc??
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Old 21-02-2006, 19:41   #6
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I too am unsure as to what Mike is referring. I work for an oranisation that builds, amongst other things, inflatable liferafts. We use hundreds of gallons of glue - one of the Bostic 2-part epoxies, to be more precise. We have a fairly heavy duty extraction fan system in our facility, and the guys on the shop floor wear filter masks, but thatis more for the solvents associated with the prepping (methyl-ethyl ketone) and re-livening (toluene) than the actual glue itself. The glue obviously does have some potentially harmul vapors (I grew up where ssolvent abuse in the form of glue-snifing was a massive problem amongst teenagers), but provide one takes some basic precautions - particularly to try to keep the work area well ventilated, I do not see this as a "one way ticket" area. Of course I could be completely wrong...
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Old 21-02-2006, 20:13   #7
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I am not sure about the glue issue either, but I can make some recommendations for removing it. Commercial sign shop, or vendors that sell sign supplies are a good source for industrial adhesive remover. We used to use this stuff in the body shop to remove decal glue for trucks that were being removed from fleets. Works great, and does not seem to react with paint or fiberglass.
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Old 21-02-2006, 20:26   #8
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Thanks Kai Nui,

Once again though, I reiterate that my problem is not with the removal of the glue - I can do that ok, but with recommendations for an appropriate substance for fairing-in at the glassed in interface of the ply bulkheads to the GRP hull, deck or cabin...
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Old 21-02-2006, 20:46   #9
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OK Mate, I would use an epoxy resin with a small amount of glue powder and a high amount of a lightweight fairing compound. The glue powder controls sagging and helps to "flow" the mixed past out. But don't use too much glue powderor the fairing compound becomes too hard once cured. The lightweight fairing powder is easy to sand. Mix to a consistancy of a very think peanut butter. You should be able to peak some up in the container and have it remain there without slumping away.
Why Epoxy? it will adhere very well to almost anything. You could use a polyester based car/builders filler, but it doesn't alway adhere well. It is also hard to get fine airbubbles out of it and the little bubbles appear when you sand. It does have the major advantage of being very fast to cure and work with, where as Epoxy will take longer to cure to the point of sanding. Hope this helps. Fire away any other question if you need or I haven't understood or something.
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Old 21-02-2006, 20:59   #10
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That is exactly the type of info I was looking for Wheels, thanks muchly! However, I'm gonna pester you for just a little bit more info, if you don't mind:

Epoxy resin - yup, cool with that

Glue powder - nope - what is glue powder? A common brand name would also be good.

Lightweight fairing compound - kinda - I understand what you mean, but I am such a novice I wouldn't know what to call it - again, can you give me a brand name of two?
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Old 21-02-2006, 21:17   #11
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Glue

Many of the new glues are quite safe to use in a confined space and breath normaly.
A one way ticket is when you can not be revived. Some stuff will konk you out but you can be revived. Some glues prevent that because of the way they clog the passages.
There were a lot of toxic brews in the days of old. Always worth a caution when working with the stuff. I have seen it burn. It takes a while to get going.
If it is scraping off okay then that's great. When we glued in new headlinings in cars we would move them outside and open all the doors and remove the front and rear windows, and wind down the door windows, and get out while the glue was drying.
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Old 21-02-2006, 22:57   #12
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Weyalan, both are fillers available for epoxy. West systems 404 is a high density adhesive filler (glue powder), and 407 is a low density fairing filler (fairing compound) that is added to the resin and hardener mix.
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Old 22-02-2006, 01:43   #13
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Weyalan, what would be the easiest brand name to get hold of for you in your area? I may be able to help with some exact specs if I knew it was say Epiglass or Awlcraft or West systems or so on.
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Old 22-02-2006, 02:44   #14
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The Polyester Fairing Compound, Body Filler, or Plastic Putty, that Wheels was referring to is commonly called “Bondo”, which is a proprietary two-part polyester-based compound, used mostly for autobody repair.
Using body filler, by Reed Overson: http://www.roadsters.com/filler/
HTH,
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Old 22-02-2006, 14:18   #15
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Thanks again for all the info guys...this is exactly the "good oil" I was hoping for.

I can probably get any of the brands you named Wheels; West Sys, Awlcraft or Epiglass...it has been my experience that Tasmania seems to have pretty much the same brands as are available in New Zealand. However, now that I have a handle on what you are talking about, I am sure the local chandlers will be able to give me all the info that I need for specific brands and specs.

Thanks again y'all
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