Internal Ballast - to melt or not to melt

[DavidSaunders]

I am undertaking a major refit of a Classic 37.
I will be removing the internal ballast to assess the keel, etc. (Need to dry it out, undertake repairs, etc.)
When I cut open the top of the keel I was pleasantly surprised to see lots of lead. It looks to be about .22 cal and 9mm...see attachments.
The question is whether or not I should consolidate (melt) it while I have it out to inspect the keel.
The obvious advantage of getting rid of the air space gives me two advantages: lowering ballast in the keel, and increasing available storage space.
The reason I ask is to get some help determining first of all is it worth the time /hassle /cost of melting it all down and resetting it lower in the keel, and second, is there a reason (other than convenience) to leave it in a more loose format?
Thanks.
DavidSaunders

[Sailmonkey]

I would be all for melting it, but then your left with the question of how to shape it to the keel. You can’t very well pour molten lead into a fiberglass keel.

[Panope]

I vote for re-melting.

I did same during last winter's refit using a simple wood fired set-up. I cast the lead into flat slabs that could be stacked like pancakes leaving very little airspace between.

Lead melting starts at the 3:50 mark of this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL6ZKkeSwaQ&t=248s

[Bill O]

One word of caution, lead is very toxic and one should wear a respirator while melting the lead to avoid inhaling the toxic fumes. As in the video do the melting outside, but should wear the respirator outside also when around the fumes).

Also wear a better dust mask (use the respirator with the dust cartridges vs the cheap paper ones) to avoid inhaling dust when removing/handling or cutting reshaping.

Yes, the respirators maybe hot, but harder to remove lead from your body after the fact.

Here's a link if needed: http://www.dph.illinois.gov/sites/de...men-041516.pdf

Bill O.

[Sparx]

One plus to leaving the lead in bullet form is that it fills all the void space in the keel, preventing the lead from shifting around. I might melt 80% of the lead into ingots to reduce volume and get the mass lower in the keel, the pour the 20% left as bullets in around the ingots to fill all the voids and keep the whole from shifting.

I would layer them into the bilge, as recommended by Panope.

A 11x9" cake pan or similar steel kitchen baking container makes a workable mold. I have built molds out of 2x6 lumber to give the exact shape wanted. Coat the inside of the lumber mold with a good layer of drywall compound, smooth to your satisfaction, the let this dry until VERY dry (use heat and time). Any residual moisture in the mold will vaporize quickly during the pour, and could create dangerous spatter.

Use a respirator, welders gloves, eye protection.

[fourlyons]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

I would be all for melting it, but then your left with the question of how to shape it to the keel. You can’t very well pour molten lead into a fiberglass keel.

Actually you can and some builders have. The one I'm familiar with built a tub around the keel and ran water through it during the pour. Fiberglass is used for water lift mufflers after all.

[DavidSaunders]

Originally Posted by Panope

I vote for re-melting.

I did same during last winter's refit using a simple wood fired set-up. I cast the lead into flat slabs that could be stacked like pancakes leaving very little airspace between.

Lead melting starts at the 3:50 mark of this video:

Panope,
Thanks for the link, and thanks for all of the excellent work on anchor holding and all the custom fabrication work.
I watched the video series last year and cringed when you brought out the jackhammer.... What a Pita that must have been. I admire both your work and your tenacity.

[DavidSaunders]

Thanks to all who have responded so far.
Bill O, I'm a bit of a safety nut, so a good respirator is standard kit for me, even on hot days. I'm looking into a long hose for my shop vac so I can vacuum the bullets out without blowing lead dust all through the cabin.
Sailmonkey and Sparx, I was originally thinking of pouring in epoxy around pancake type billets, but maybe spray foam would be less permanent and still keep the disconcerting clunks and bangs to a minimum.
Fourlyons, that's more work and risk than I want, but good to know it's possible.
I would definitely glass the other finished product over to contain the lot of it in case of rollover, etc.
I'm still open to ideas....
Thanks again all.

[mike d.]

You do need to understand that there is a certain amount of antimony, in the lead ! It is used to make the bullet harder! This is done so there is less fouling in the barrel !

[S/V Alchemy]

An alternative would be to remove most of it, and to pour in epoxy. Add a layer, and pour in epoxy. Repeat until done. That lead is now in there forever.

[Stemci]

If you want to melt then, a thought would be to shop by a plumbing shop and buy an old lead pot / ladle setup. You’ll also be surprised how much waste/junk will accumulate at the top of the pot. Colder melting point and lead becomes “sticky and difficult to pour” an old trick was to dip the “dry”ladle in the pot and if it comes out clean it’s ready to pour.. a point of caution ; hot melted lead in contact with water/wet ladle can explode so be careful..

[oleman]

That ballast is nothing more than scrap from a gun range. Very good way to get lead at far less than new price. On a commercial ship many thousand pounds of 70# lead pigs are used for leveling ballast. Even the 70# ones are relatively small but costly. It is placed where needed and left it its original form in use.

[Steve Bean]

A suggestion to visualize the space-saving benefit of melting: dig out a couple of pounds of bullets and melt a measured amount, say a soup can packed full, and pour it into the can. Compare the space saving to the volume you may lose to spaces between ingots. My boat, a 32-foot ferrocement, is ballasted with boiler punchings mixed with shot blast, like iron BBs. It was the heaviest combination the builder could find, as lead was beyond his reach economically. She sails just fine. I could replace the iron with lead and gain bilge space and lower center of gravity, but I'm not planning to do it. Even better would be gold; it's about one and a half times as heavy as lead... I had a friend who had permission to salvage pistol bullets at a military range on weekends. He made a 3,000-pound keel in many pours, using an electric pottery kiln.

[Cadence]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. For the small amount of storage. It is going to make her stiffer by lowering the center of gravity some, how much I have no idea. If you decide to go that route insure you are not inhaling toxic fumes. Lord knows what the toxic lead is alloyed with.

[Telemark43]

Stories of a small puncture of the enclosing fiberglass from a sharp grounding can allow the small pellets to drain out of the keel area...and loose your ballast underway. Recommend using some means of congealing pellets together, melting or epoxy or.., to avoid that potential failure mode.