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Old 06-01-2010, 09:02   #1
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Interior Woodwork

In the process of restoring Windsong I have been taking home pieces of interior wood and trim to work on when I have time. All of the interior woodwork was stained with a dark reddish hue and didn't appear to have much of a finish coat of varnish or anything. The woodwork is mostly teak with a few mahogany pieces.

For an example, here is a teak cabinet door and its trim taken from the v-berth. The lighting doesn't show how dark and ugly the stain is, but you get the idea.



For each piece I clean the wood off then strip the old finish and stain with a chemical stripper. After stripping I sand the piece down to 220 grit all over and end up with some nice looking wood:



with a bigger cabinet door & trim:



My question now is what do I do next?

My current plan is to use Minwax Helmsman to finish, but am unsure about how to start. They recommend using the Minwax stains for a first coat and if I want to keep the color of the teak I assume use the "natural" stain. But there are a few areas where there are nicks and dings which will need to have wood filler applied before finishing. Will a stain be necessary for these patched ares to not stand out? Will this require me to stain all of the wood a darker color for uniformity?

Would a few thinned layers of the varnish do the same thing to seal and provide a base layer? Or would their brand of stain work best as a base coat?

My other concern is the trim. As you can see in the photos, the trim has large holes for the screws which were bunged when attached to the boat. I am nervous about applying finishing to the trim when I will need to affix bungs later on. I figure putting the bungs in and sanding them down flush would ruin whatever finish I put on the trim. So would it be a good idea to install the trim raw, bung, then finish; or finish the trim, bung, then patch whatever areas were sanded down? My concern is the finish around the bungs would look different to the surrounding areas that didn't get the sanding/refinishing.

I know the questions are spaced out and random, but any help would be welcome!
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:33   #2
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Ok here goes. First of all from the pics, beautiful solid teak with louvered panels, something of value that you just don't see much of anymore and will be well worth the effort to do right. I would love to see pictures of the boat that surrounds this wood. Judging by the nice work you did prepping; you are of the mindset to do the job right. The color of freshly sanded teak in not its normal or natural color, so if you plan to do the rest of the interior wood work you will have to spend the same amount of prep time for all areas to be finished in order for the final tones to be even. Your original picture looks like the wood may have had Cetol as a finish, maybe tung oil. Most do not stain teak before final finish allowing for the natural color of the wood. With that in mind I would not try to fill small cracks or dings as the filler usually stands out like a sore thumb. Your next decision is what type of product can I use for this interior wood. Pure China tung oil: http://www.realmilkpaint.com/oil.html or if you like a bright finish and are into self abuse, a traditional good high quality varnish: http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.htm?group=1508 , or if you like a bright finish that IMHO, outlooks and outlasts any traditional single part varnish with much less application headaches, I swear by Bristol Finish http://www.bristolfinish.com/, atwo part urethane finish. My interior wood work is all solid teak and finished with the china tung oil, for a beautiful, hand rubbed effect, (See Pic). The advantage to this is very easy to take care of. If you get a ding, light sand, get out a rag and bottle and a little touch up and good to go. Try doing that with traditional varnish. Of course if you use the Bristol finish it is so tough that to ding that you would have to be a real butcher to bang it up. One last thing I should mention with the Bristol finish is that it is possible to build the finish into the dings you have by applying several coats just into the dinged areas, (usually about four) to build the profile up to the boards original level, then start coating as per instructions and the problem areas should be almost invisible. Regarding the plugged areas you are correct in your assumptions, it looks like these are frames to the doors and you should be able to take the doors of the frame by unscrewing the hinges. Home Depot sells plug cutters and a very thin kerf plug cutting saw made my Stanley tool company, (Was just using this morning). Install the frame, use Gorilla glue for the plugs, cut plugs flush, sand plugged area, tape around the frame to protect, and then apply finish of your choice. Good luck the project will be well worth it.

Chris
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Old 06-01-2010, 13:04   #3
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I agree with Chris about not using any filler for the dings...however varnish is not near as big a maintenance problem inside as it is out.
I'd go with a tinted varnish.
Judging from the picture, and as Chris said, it looks like you have done a very good job so far...getting the plugs out without damaging the surrounding areas is sooooo difficult and it looks like you have done it well.
I’d also like to see more picture of the interior.
Good job Beersmith!
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Old 06-01-2010, 13:06   #4
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I have a semi-gloss finish to my interior woodwork. It was done by first oiling the woodwork with Deks Olje D1 and then using a mix of D1 and D2 to get the semi gloss finish. It looks good and is easily touched up, wiping over with a little more oil!

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Old 06-01-2010, 13:31   #5
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Thanks for the tips thus far! You can see pictures of the boat scattered throughout my blog:

Erick's Wanderlust Blog

The interior isn't in great shape and I am in the long restoration process. I plan on refinishing each piece of woodwork on the boat, so I'm looking for a solid procedure to keep it uniform.
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Old 06-01-2010, 14:03   #6
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1)do not use gorilla glue for the bungs you will never be able to get them out again if you have to
2) gorilla glue is a gap filling- expanding glue

to put in the plugs dip the bottom half of the plug in varnish and press into hole let dry and cut plug and sand flush then finish rest of panels trim etc. the reason to use varnish on the plugs it holds them in place very well, but if you have to get them out you just have to smack them and then drill a hole and insert a screw and use the screw to push them out.
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Old 06-01-2010, 14:33   #7
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On most of my projects I am working with the thought that I will never have to disasemble in my lifetime and am looking for strengh. Pluging the old timers way with varnish or shelac for interior work is just fine. However for teak deck work. I prefer the waterproofness, flexability and strength chareteristics of urethane glues like Gorilla. Reagarding the plug never coming out because of the use of Gorilla glue this is just not so.
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Old 06-01-2010, 15:00   #8
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I agree about being careful with using fillers, they tend to draw attention. Sometimes you must. Sometimes we will add a bung or apply some medium viscosity super glue and sand it in whilst it dries to mix the sanding dust with it. Sometimes a little oil paint to make the blemish go away. You can do a little brown and a coat of varnish and a little black grain and another coat of varnish and with some care even major owies will disappear. I would recommend no stain. The varnish will add some color and the teak will darken with age. If you stain and then varnish it's harder to blend and patch later when necessary. I would also recommend a satin varnish as gloss will accentuate any blems there are and show any varnish imperfections more. Just my thoughts. David
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Old 06-01-2010, 18:03   #9
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I prefer oil to varnish interior just because it is easier to repair and there will be dings in interior teak at some point. I have used bronze wool to work it in and, after a time, it looks similar to satin varnish. 3M has special very fine abrasive pads that will do a similar job of producing a very slick natural oil finish on teak.
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Old 07-01-2010, 12:44   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beersmith View Post
My other concern is the trim. As you can see in the photos, the trim has large holes for the screws which were bunged when attached to the boat. I am nervous about applying finishing to the trim when I will need to affix bungs later on. I figure putting the bungs in and sanding them down flush would ruin whatever finish I put on the trim. So would it be a good idea to install the trim raw, bung, then finish; or finish the trim, bung, then patch whatever areas were sanded down? My concern is the finish around the bungs would look different to the surrounding areas that didn't get the sanding/refinishing.

I know the questions are spaced out and random, but any help would be welcome!
Is it possible to install the bungs, pre-finish at home and once taken to the boat, fasten using a different method from the back. This would have the traditional look remain but allow the finishing to be completed at home??

Just a thought.
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Old 07-01-2010, 13:40   #11
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Originally Posted by Extemporaneous View Post
Is it possible to install the bungs, pre-finish at home and once taken to the boat, fasten using a different method from the back. This would have the traditional look remain but allow the finishing to be completed at home??

Just a thought.
Extemp.
I've been thinking of something like this, but was unsure of how to attach the trim. Epoxy? Finishing nails?
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Old 07-01-2010, 14:17   #12
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Originally Posted by Beersmith View Post
I've been thinking of something like this, but was unsure of how to attach the trim. Epoxy? Finishing nails?
Obviously without looking at it, but a couple of possibilities might be ....

If you want it removable:
Small square wood stock run vertically (perhaps horizontally under any selves also?) up the inside of the cabinet with wood screws each direction into the backside of the trim and into the shelving sides.
Metal L-Brackets.
Nice brass screws through the face (I know some won't like that).
If you could tolerate it, you could also have protruding wood plugs that would be pre-finished before you push/glue them in.

You either try to match as close to perfect as you can or don't even try and plan to contrast.

If permanent:
I would biscuit joint and glue.

Likely a bunch more ways, but that's what jumps to mind.

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Old 07-01-2010, 14:43   #13
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Hey guys were getting a little crazy with this. The frame is meant to be installed plugged as original and finished installed. Frame shouldn't have been taken off in the first place! Anybody with the skills to prep that wood like shown in the original pictures certainly can mask and tape areas around frame that he wants to protect for stripping and finishing. Forget about the minwax products Bristol Finish Home If you think you want a satinish look Bristol has this too. Do yourself a favor and try a couple test patches 1-2 inces long with the different finishes and then decide. I've attached a couple of pictures of a customers Grand Banks that I refinished with Bristol two part for your reference.
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Old 07-01-2010, 14:53   #14
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You can plug them now and finish and then glue them into place. If they need to be refinished in the future then it will have to be done in place. Harder but doable.
The interiors we build don't have bungs as a rule, everything is glued. David
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Old 07-01-2010, 15:23   #15
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Hey guys were getting a little crazy with this.
The frame is meant to be installed plugged as original and finished installed. Frame shouldn't have been taken off in the first place!
To suggest that is the ONLY way to do it is "crazy".
Quote:
Originally Posted by cburger View Post
Hey guys were getting a little crazy with this.
Anybody with the skills to prep that wood like shown in the original pictures certainly can mask and tape areas around frame that he wants to protect for stripping and finishing.
What would be "crazy" would be to suffer trying to do this in a cramp awkward, 20 below temperature environment when you could be doing it in your shop at home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cburger View Post
Hey guys were getting a little crazy with this.
Forget about the minwax products Bristol Finish Home If you think you want a satinish look Bristol has this too.
Note to self. Delete and and all references to any other products besides Bristol. Nah, that would be crazy.
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Originally Posted by cburger View Post
Hey guys were getting a little crazy with this.
I've attached a couple of pictures of a customers Grand Banks that I refinished with Bristol two part for your reference.
It would be "crazy" nice of you to offer to go and finish his boat for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cburger View Post
Hey guys were getting a little crazy with this.
What's crazy is when someone's small petite limited experience (relative terms) thinks:
  1. Their way is the only way.
  2. People won't see their message as anything but ignorant.
  3. This approach to communication deserves any respect.
It's really too bad that people are like this.
Oh well, crazy, isn't it.

Extemp.
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