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Old 13-01-2008, 15:16   #1
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Interior water damage

Hi guys!

I was wondering what people thought of the following pieces of water damage. The boat is a "Hans Christian" 36' and while a solid sailing boat could do with a bit of TLC. My question is how much.

The following pictures (assuming the pictures work that is) show discoloration that features at all the floor intersections and some leak damage (including ply delam) at the foot of the QB.

Looking at the floor level discoloration I thought that it might just scrub / sand out (and the panels could be refinished). Am I fooling myself? Is there going to be nasty mold through the wood that requires more work to fix? Does it imply more about the boat other than the fact that it's owners leave it alone in the marina for months at a time? How many hours will it take me to clean up all around the cabin and refinish to a homely standard?

The QB leak is obviously quite voracious and will need to be tracked down and fixed. If I can't track it down before buying should I suspect the teak decking and run away? One of my thoughts is to refinish the entire deck but not until I get to Thailand.....

One last question is how would people approach price negotiation wrt to these issues (there were a few other issues I can use as some leverage too). One thing that comes to mind is putting in an offer based on succesful location of the QB problem.

All feedback welcome - thanks in advance!

Tom

p.s. What I would love, as a newcomer to the idea of working on such a large project, is a database of before and after photos and descriptions of work involved. Does this exist somewhere already?
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Old 13-01-2008, 15:25   #2
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Solid wood will clean up pretty well with sanding and wood bleach. End grain seep is the hardest to bring back but you can get rid of the worst with effort. If there is anyway to seal the end grain, it will save future grief.

Beware of plywood. The veneers are often paper thin. Just mentioning sander in their presence and you'll have gone through the exterior veneer. In any case, Plywood should be painted. Amazing how much it opens up one of those Taiwon caves with a little plant on the flat surfaces.

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Old 13-01-2008, 16:06   #3
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Every boat leaks. Only a properly executed metal boat can come close to keeping water out. The only major concern regarding interior wood is if it is a load bearing wall. All the rest is just for looks and convenience.

A proper survey should discover any major issues. Pay for a highly qualified surveyor.
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Old 13-01-2008, 18:37   #4
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Thanks for the answers.

I hear you about the surveyor for making sure the boat is structurally sound but I would be living in this Taiwanese Teak Cave with my girl so its got to be pretty nice - no visible mold, minimal water staining etc. She's already planning on some painting too to lighten the place up (assuming we picked this boat). None of the leaks that I saw looked like they would be doing structural damage so my question mainly concerns cosmetics.

Am fairly sure that the interior is mostly ply with a veneer finish - in which case perhaps the solution here is to strip and put all new veneer on? Could I strip the damaged panels one weekend (not thinking about the QB rot here), sand a second weekend and reveneer a third or is this pie in the sky dreaming of the time these things will take and the problems I will uncover?
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Old 13-01-2008, 21:16   #5
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Every boat leaks.
Awwe mate! careful now. Thats a gross generalisation.
Quote:
Only a properly executed metal boat can come close to keeping water out.
Huh?!?!

OK tom, firstly, take a look in our Gallery. You will see some amasign photo's in their of work done on boats.
Now then, lets look at this seriousely. Rover is pretty close to bang on. You have one advantage if the timber is actually real teak. That is that teak does not take up water easily. So chances are, the damage is cosmetic and will clean up.
However, if the timber is something else and stained to look like teak, then all bets are off.
When it comes to teak decks leaking, the problem can quickly become hidiouse. Leaks can start from places you would never think of and the water can run under the teak deck for huge distances before it find it's way below. Trying to find leaks can be a nightmare and often the owners resort to pulling up the deck and relaying it. Be prepared. Even in Thailand, laying a teak deck is not cheap.
Now for the negotiation. The best thing to do would be to talk to a local boat builder. Get him to give you an idea on repairs. Then you take the owners asking price and less the repairs cost and say, this is what I am offering. You either walk from the deal if he say's no, or you live with the boat and swallow the cost of repair when it comes time.
And finaly, mold depends on three things to grow. It needs a damp place. It likes a dark place. It does not like airflow. So if you keep the boat ventilated and as dry as possible, mold will not grow, even if the cieling leaks each time it rains. Salt water will put a stop ot most molds pronto, so a good spalsh of seawater over the deck on a frisky day will stop a lot of rot in out of the way places you can't see.
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Old 13-01-2008, 21:18   #6
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From what I can see from the pictures, the wood all looks to be solid T&G. Maybe it's laid on over plywood but the facing wood is the real stuff. Paint the plywood. Can't imagine how much fun it would be to try and re-veneer a large sheet of plywood.
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Old 13-01-2008, 22:39   #7
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Hey there! I've got a HC36 myself; 1975 edition. I'm almost exactly "in the same boat" as you :-)
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Old 14-01-2008, 00:17   #8
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Not in it yet but seriously considering the leap. I'm not too worried about putting *some* work into it but would like to a) spend at least some of my time actually sailing and b) make whatever boat I find livable for two within 12 months of weekends and vacation (minus time sailing).

Shes a beauty though how do you find her overall?
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Old 14-01-2008, 00:43   #9
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Buying an iceberg...

Using the iceberg analogy you have to assume that the visible damage is only a tiny part of the total.

The entire interior of the boat could be totally trashed and you might only find out when you start to repair the damage.

I don't know how these boats were built but it is possible that the supporting structure and associated fastenings are damaged.

The same may apply to every piece of equipment and system in the boat.

Price negotiation should allow for a total rebuild of the interior and replacement of most (if not all) interior equipment.

If the owner will not come to that party it might be time to go to bed early.
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Old 14-01-2008, 01:19   #10
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I always buy boats that are on the verge of being derlict. So...all of mine did leak when I bought them. The important thing is to find the source of the leak. Preferibly before you buy it. My current Ingrid 38 had port sealant that failed over time. It was that old "boatlife" crap. Rain water had made its way into the facia's and berth areas. It took a sledge hammer with a 4"X4" oak drift to get them out. That being said...If your girl or you is squeemish around being uncomfortable weeks at a time living in piles of boat 'stuff', you might want to pass.
By the way...the statement "Every boat leaks. Only a properly executed metal boat can come close to keeping water out", is rediculous. Only an uncared for vessel leaks. Remember you don't weld yourself into a steel boat. You still have ports, hatches, thru-hulls, dorades and companion-way boards.
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Old 14-01-2008, 01:46   #11
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One extra point may help add top all the above excellent advise. If the timbers are damp and spongy, then you have a good chance of rot and corrosion bellow. If it is dry and solid, then chances are that so far, the problem is just a small leak that is causing cosmetic damage. You may want to get your hand down under somewhere and see if it feels dry or damp. That should tell you heaps.
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Old 14-01-2008, 03:18   #12
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Quote:
By the way...the statement "Every boat leaks. Only a properly executed metal boat can come close to keeping water out", is rediculous. Only an uncared for vessel leaks.
I agree. What a load of bollocks. If I ever get a leak I cannot sleep until I have found where it is coming from, pulled the boat to bits and fixed it.

My boat does not leak.
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Old 14-01-2008, 08:08   #13
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be weary of the ply wood i see the veneer has lifted at the sole. if the veneer has lifted then i would question the inner plies because they are usually composed of a lesser quality wood and if the glue failed on the outer what has happened to the inner. plywood is only struturely sound if all the laminations are intact/boned. if only the exterior veneer is delaminated then you should be alright, but you really need to find out about the rest. i have had panels where the edge seemed fine, but when i hit or flexed/stressed the panel inward of the edge the glue line failed and separated to the edge.
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Old 14-01-2008, 12:07   #14
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I cannot sleep until I have found where it is coming from, pulled the boat to bits and fixed it.
Darryl, you made a Typo. Shouldn't that read, "I cannot sleep untill Paula has found it and pulled the boat apart and fixed it". You just roll over and go back to sleep don't ya? ;-) :-)
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Old 14-01-2008, 17:30   #15
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Thanks for the reponses guys - the impression I'm getting is that this damage stands a reasonable task of being fairly cosmetic but the potential iceberg is "lurking". Your feedback on this thread and elsewhere in the site is really helping me formulate ideas about how to approach buying "the big one".

While I love much about this boat (actually it featured pleasantly in several dreams) and need to buy one this winter I'm going to continue my quest. Having said that its been on the market a significant time and I may get a chance to revisit if nothing else comes up.

Now I'm off to start a new thread on a different topic and try and steal some more of your braincells!
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