Insurance--DIY fixes that your insurance might not like

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by wannacat

Why not ask your own insurance company what work is acceptable and to what standards you have to meet. Then keep the response in case you need it!

And get their response in writing.

[redhead]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

or this one ...... insurance denied.

I'm trying to spot the danger in each photo and although most are obvious (and really funny in a sick way) I can't figure out the one with the batteries. I study Calder's book like a nun reading the Bible in an abbey and to my shame am just not catching on.

Is it because there's no ventilation? Still learning here and I was thinking of moving my batteries lower down for weight and balance. Thanks.

[meirriba]

I do not have such extensive career as boatpoker but I did a few years of surveying and had my share of funny installations.
One for instance: gas bottles installed on top of the deck, highest point on the boat. Locker not ventilated at all and serves also as a storage for fuel canisters.
I marked that in my report in the safety section as 'must do'.
However, after 3 or 4 years, met the owner and asked him about it. He said that he still sails with this as it was.
If this vessel blows up, I presume that the insurance company will not be happy to pay.

[ferrailleur]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Oh dear.


If you have a furnace installed or replaced in your home a code inspection is generally required. I wonder if there are specific things that would trigger a requirement for survey or notification? I never thought about it, but it would make sense, perhaps.

a code inspection is required to protect your life at home.... why not on a boat?

[Fiveslide]

Originally Posted by redhead

I'm trying to spot the danger in each photo and although most are obvious (and really funny in a sick way) I can't figure out the one with the batteries. I study Calder's book like a nun reading the Bible in an abbey and to my shame am just not catching on.

Is it because there's no ventilation? Still learning here and I was thinking of moving my batteries lower down for weight and balance. Thanks.

This one, I think, is subtle. Isn't one battery wired in that bank backwards? I'm looking at the labels and one looks reversed.

[contrail]

Hmmmmmm. I have owned boats for almost 37 years now, almost always insured. Some work I contract out, some I do myself, carefully. What I contract out, I review, VERY CAREFULLY, as not all "professional" work deserves that label, and I have a pretty good idea of what I am doing or having done. I have had more insurance surveys than you would want to count, over the years. Most have a recommendation or two, occasionally a "must" ! I follow the recommendations, and also, in a general way, keep in touch with my insurance agent when I have any doubt. I have had two claims over the years (one from Irma) and have been treated fairly and professionally, and the claims paid. I always use reputable surveyors and my boats generally get described as in "good", "very good", or "excellent condition", "for their age". I am also a professional captain, by which I mean that it's not just a license, nor just an OUPV, but my job.


Never once have I been questioned as to work done, or who did it, or if I did it. Nor is it in my contracts, even the fine print. I think the insurance companies get a feel for what they are dealing with from good surveyors. Otherwise, there would be no insurance business or insurance companies. Some time, decades ago, when the first car rental companies came into existence, I am sure most people thought they were crazy. I would have done, myself. Who is going to bring back the car? Will it get wrecked, etc. etc? But, somewhere between the rental fee, the insurance costs and the actuarial statistics, it turns out there was a business.....a big business, in fact. Insurance is not about taking no risk. It's about evaluating the risk and figuring out what to charge for it, and if people will pay.


I think boat insurance is very similar. That is not to say that there are no DIY idiots, that boats never fail their insurance surveys, that all insurance companies are on the up and up, or that all surveyors or boat yards know their stuff, because that's not the case.



It is also true that in the marine industry (in which I work) it is like every other industry; everyone goes to some lengths to demonstrate that their particular service is necessary, or even have it mandated that their particular service is used. And, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king! And a few, usually exceptional, experiences are used to create the urban myths of which the PO speaks.


Two others: "You can't get a salvage boat insured". Not so, providing that it has been repaired up to the standard required by the insurer, as determined by a surveyor. "You can't get insurance in the hurricane box". You certainly can. I always have. Whether it's worth the extra fee is up to you. I think it's the same with DIY. Probably a boat had lots of survey recommendations, failed to do them or to do them adequately, and then had a claim denied. Fair enough!


By the way, I have always used top rated insurance companies, so perhaps you get what you pay for.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by wannacat

Why not ask your own insurance company what work is acceptable and to what standards you have to meet. Then keep the response in case you need it!

Because they will not answer that question (I have asked). That is the reason for the thread.

[Captndave1]

But on the opposite note, I put a deposit for an agreed amount on a very sound boat and the day before closing, the boat sank at the dock. A likely story, the owner collected almost double the agreed selling price from the insurance company. I guess some people get away with anything.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by ferrailleur

a code inspection is required to protect your life at home.... why not on a boat?

Because the city/county building departments have no jurisduction of vessels, this sometimes even includes floating homes.

[hellosailor]

Thinwater-
"Because they will not answer that question (I have asked)."
And your actual contract is totally silent on the subject? It makes no mention of changing circumstances or conditions that the insurer must be notified of? Nothing about safety standards or compliance with anything?

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by redhead

I'm trying to spot the danger in each photo and although most are obvious (and really funny in a sick way) I can't figure out the one with the batteries. I study Calder's book like a nun reading the Bible in an abbey and to my shame am just not catching on.

Is it because there's no ventilation? Still learning here and I was thinking of moving my batteries lower down for weight and balance. Thanks.

It looked like the batteries aren't strapped down? The low resolution photo doesn't help.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Thinwater-
"Because they will not answer that question (I have asked)."
And your actual contract is totally silent on the subject? It makes no mention of changing circumstances or conditions that the insurer must be notified of? Nothing about safety standards or compliance with anything?

No, not exactly. The wording is seldom specific enough to address a specific question. You can call them, with contract language in hand, and not get an answer. You will never get one in writing. Lawyers like weasel words and weasel room.

[foothillsailor]

OK Boatpoker ---I've looked but damned if I can figure out what was wrong in the battery pictures --please educate me :-) Thanks

[MoorOrLess]

Originally Posted by Fiveslide

Very true. ABYC standards are a click away on the webs. I used to keep a copy on my phone and consulted it often when working on boats, mine and others. Ignorance of good and proven practices is not an excuse.

I feel this is a good practice to follow and apply same process myself.
A team of very knowledgeable and experienced people developed those standards, mostly driven by safety. As any work needs to be done to some level of quality, why not follow (or exceed) a defined standard.
While there might not be someone watching or checking is no reason not to apply the standard. Knowing it is done to a defined practice provides piece of mind.... it also has to be done with good workmanship.
Short cuts are often not cost effective in the end.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by MoorOrLess

I feel this is a good practice to follow and apply same process myself.
A team of very knowledgeable and experienced people developed those standards, mostly driven by safety. As any work needs to be done to some level of quality, why not follow (or exceed) a defined standard.
While there might not be someone watching or checking is no reason not to apply the standard. Knowing it is done to a defined practice provides piece of mind.... it also has to be done with good workmanship.
Short cuts are often not cost effective in the end.

As noted above ABYC standards are not publicly available. You need to join the club first.