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Old 24-03-2008, 12:33   #16
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Thanks for the suggestion. I think with using a generous dollop of 5200 though that every 8" top and every 8" sides is going to be all I need.
At first I was thinking even less often that that.
Thanks again.
Kind Regards,
JohnL
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Old 16-10-2008, 17:34   #17
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I dry fit one 20 foot section several months ago then had lots of house guests and didn't get back to it.
Starting again. What a pain in the ___. I don't know if the local True Value Hardware and General Store has enough beer to see me through this project.
Wish me luck.
JohnL
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Old 25-10-2008, 19:40   #18
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Well! This last Monday I got the first section installed on the port quarter. It took about 40 1/4-20 4" through bolts (machine screws) through the sides of the 20 foot section and about the same amount of 8" 1/4-20 bolts through the top of the rail with a generous dollop of 3M 5200 under the rail. Of course I learned a lot on this first installation and will be faster and better on the next. I think it is very strong.
Lesson learned. Wear rubber gloves. Second lesson learned: Have plenty of line and come alongs handy to bend the aluminium extrusion around to meet the deck edge. Keep cold beer on hand.
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Old 25-10-2008, 20:32   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
Well! This last Monday I got the first section installed on the port quarter. It took about 40 1/4-20 4" through bolts (machine screws) through the sides of the 20 foot section and about the same amount of 8" 1/4-20 bolts through the top of the rail with a generous dollop of 3M 5200 under the rail. Of course I learned a lot on this first installation and will be faster and better on the next. I think it is very strong.
Lesson learned. Wear rubber gloves. Second lesson learned: Have plenty of line and come alongs handy to bend the aluminium extrusion around to meet the deck edge. Keep cold beer on hand.
Kind regards,
JohnL
I'm sure it will feel SOOO good when it is complete. I know that it did when I got mine complete (212 5/16th 316 ss machine screws).
Good luck.
Extemp.
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Old 25-10-2008, 21:15   #20
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I replaced all the wood toe rail on my CSY with slotted toe rail.

The aft deck needed about a 1/2 inch relief so I wound up putting wood back down after all.

Your very first post asks how many crews and how many through-bolts.

In my case the boat pretty much dictated that. Some areas were impossible to through-bolt so we used screws.

In areas where we were sure we'd be securing tackle we through-bolted every hole that we could.

I put up 4 sections 17 feet long approximately. After dry fit up and starter holes were in place I put down the 5200. It was still a bit messy but I managed to clean it up.

I had one helper but the best tool was large clamps and lots of them. It is virtually impossible to get the fit you need by holding the rail in place by hand.
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Old 08-12-2009, 15:27   #21
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Hey all,

I realize this thread is old, but I was hoping someone would have a suggestion for sourcing affordable slotted toerail. I've found a couple places on the net, but single lengths are in the realm of $1000 - so over $2000 for the boat.

Thanks for your suggestions!
Aaron
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Old 08-12-2009, 16:01   #22
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There is a section in the West Marine catalog from Taco. I'd contact Taco directly to see if they have something you may be able to use. They have quite a selection. The other option is to shop around locally through machine shops to see if anyone there does aluminum extrusions.
Good luck in your search.
regards,
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Old 08-12-2009, 16:20   #23
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Just a thought here but is 5200 the correct adhesive to use. I know that you plan on never taking the toe rail apart. And probably never will. but my boat -- a Sceptre 41 developed some smalll leaks from the thru bolts on the toe rails I was forced to take cabinets apart and rebed all of the screws on the starboard side of the boat. This involved removing the bolts and then replacing them -- the original bolts were so covered in adhesive that it was cheaper to replace then to clean them. If thebolts were bonded in with 5200 I don't know if I would have been able to get them out to rebed them. No expertise in this area just wondering if a removable adhesive would work better.
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Old 07-09-2010, 19:22   #24
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I have been busy all summer in the process of removing the entire aft 1/2 of the starboard Cascade aluminum toerail, and the 16+ feet of solid mahogany 3x5 carlin underneath it from my Cascade 42. Not a fun job and a sad day indeed when I discovered the rot.
The problem was due to the fact that the original build used SS wood screws from the top down through the toerail directly into the carlin. Water leakage went down the screws into the wood with nowhere else to go, thus rotting it out. The side bolts were thru-bolted, but not the top ones. Unfortunately I guess that's how they did it back then.
Fortunately, the rest of the rail and carlin seems ok, and I only lost one quarter of it presumably due to the pressure and movement of the aft dock lines acting on the toe rail over time. The boat is 35 years old, so it lasted a while before failing.

Lessons learned:

1) Always through bolt any deck fittings. period. All else asks for rot.

2) Use butyl rubber bedding on the toerail stanchions, and deck hardware. The original bedding(looked like 5200) failed after corrosion in the aluminum loosened it. The toerail fell off into my hands when the screws were removed.

3) Use some sort of buffer between dissimilar metals to prevent above mentioned corrosion, such as between the aluminum toe rail and the SS screws. Don't count on even hard anodizing. The metal-metal rubbing action will penetrate even that, and failure will occur over time. Eventually loss of aluminum at the screw heads will not leave enough to hold the flat head screws and they can and will pull through the rail. I found these little babies solve the problem VERY well, and seal the bolt holes to boot: Nylon Fasteners by Nyltite - Industrial Nylon Fasteners and Plastic Fastener Components

4) Permanently repair any wet thru-deck holes before re-bedding, especially in problem areas which get extra stress, such as stanchion bases. Dry out, then drill oversize and fill with epoxy or resin, then re-drill for the bolts. This leaves no wood exposed to possible rot from future failures. I used to use penetrating epoxy, but have been reading about problems associated with it not being fully waterproof and leaving microscopic pores which wick water in and won't let it out easily, so for now I'm sticking to solid epoxies until I can prove it one way or another.

5) Check and re-bed things at even the slightest hint of failure. I would have halved the job if I would have done it when I first suspected a problem rather than let it set one more season in the rain. - Butyl rubber makes this easy and they sell it in white.

Do EVERYTHING right, and your odds of spending the summer fixing rather than sailing your boat lowers considerably. But don't sweat it when stuff still breaks. It's a sailboat after all... If your not breaking things, you must not be using it hard enough.
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:16   #25
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Aloha Compadre,
Good to hear your opinion on this subject. I've had to replace a lot of carlin myself and it isn't an easy or pleasant job. I still have two more sections of toerail to finish installing and I know I'll find more rot to fix before it is over. The sections I've done are bolted through both top and sides. 8" OC to and 8" OC sides. I haven't used screws. Just quarter 20 bolts and machine screws. I have used 5200 for bedding and adhesive. I hope it doesn't fail.

Kind regards,
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