Installing a shower pan, and will this toilet work?

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

One other thought, if I may:

Generally, just as a rule of thumb, one tries to learn to live with the boat as it is for about a year, and then determine which are the most pressing needs, by sailing it and anchoring out in it. See what works and doesn't, for you, and then prioritize the jobs.

We were not in the PNW, but we lived aboard and cruised, using a sun shower in the cockpit (where a bucket of sea water rinses away your shower grunge) for 18 years, with the very occasional land shower when in marinas. So, it really depends a whole lot on how high on the hog you want to live. While you're in Seattle, it may be too cold for that, and you'd find out for sure that first year, but I can see why you'd like a below decks shower. Just find out all your regulations you have to deal with, and get a good idea of marine "water closets", so you don't wind up cobbling something together that will later prove unsatisfactory.

Ann

Ann's advice about living with things or a while is spot on. As in Western Cultures, there's so much that we tend to think that we "Need", which are really, in point of fact, "Wants". NOT necessities.

Also, with regards to the shower, some boats have seating grates, like a teak floor grate, which fold down overtop of the head, to sit on, when it's time for a shower. And they make a Lot of sense.
Because sitting on top of the head's lid while showering, & squirming around every which way, while showering. Puts a lot of wear & tear onto the head (proper). And can/often contributes to it's early demise.
Speciically: The bolts holding the seat on, & the attachment points for the bolts in the base, which attach the unit to the boat. So it'd be wise to factor that into your remodeling plans.

And in the short run, before you figure out your plans for hot water, you can just get a Garden Sprayer, & pour a mix of hot & cold water into it, for your shower.
The hot water component coming from a pot on top of your stove.
It's what I used when I lived aboard on a mooring in San Diego. Thank you Jim Brown (Father of the Searunner line). And they work great. Plus are cheap, & portable. The latter making them handy as cockpit showers for swim calls, or after hull scrubbing sessions, etc.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Zach

I've built a few custom heads out of plywood and fiberglass sprayed in Awlgrip. I won't do that again if I can help it. Custom built in place, takes about a billion hours of labor in a tight space... Namely because you can't see, can't stand, and can't sand what you are standing on... and it is nearly impossible to roll and tip them, so they end up sprayed. Spraying paint inside of a shower stall, while you stand it in is an instant white out.

The low hour way, to get water tight and paint grade is to epoxy formica panels to the plywood walls and then grind back the corners with 60 grit through the color coat into the phenolic backer and pull large radius fillets of epoxy. I like Awlgrip Awlfair... You don't really need structural panels, or structural epoxy fillets, with a 2 1/2 inch diameter or so fillet tool they get tough enough not to crack if the boat flexes.

Then once you have the fillets pulled, sand out the texture from the formica and paint with a linear polyurethane paint system in a semi-gloss...

Still, I can't think of a job that is less enjoyable than doing this... Even grinding out a bilge keel sump you can at least lay on a board. This, you end up on a 5 gallon bucket spinning around with no where to put your feet.

Zach

How is fitting Formica to vertical surfaces, using epoxy, & then coving the corners a simple job? Well, unless you have a Lot of experience with formica.
As it can be pretty fragile to handle, especially when using larger pieces, non-horizontally, in tight spaces.
I'd rather glue on pre-formed epoxy or fiberglass sheeting, as it's a bit less delicate (brittle).

And part of my asking is that I've painted a number of head compartments (by hand), & not had any troubles while doing it.
You just do one section, or wall at a time, so that it's safe to brace yourself against the others, while you paint.

Also, if you go the pigmented epoxy route, everything's done in one shot. Both sealing, & coloring. Plus, it leaves you with a tough, easy to clean surface when you're done. And flow coating Rocks!

Although, yes, you may want to cove the corners where any panels meet. And if you do, once your coving mixture is in place, & properly shaped, put a layer of peel ply on top of it, so that you get a nice finish for your pigmented epoxy (or paint) to stick well to.

One other tip, is to pre-finish/pre-seal as many items as possible before you install them. As it makes working on them 10x easier. And when you're putting a finish on the inside of the compartment, pull out every piece of equipment, & fixture that you can.
As again, it makes working in there Much easier.

PS: Regardless of what you use, finish wise. Make Sure to use proper protective breathing equipment. As the fumes can get pretty thick in there. Especially if everything's closed up, so that you don't get any dust blowing around inside of the boat/compartment.

[Badsanta]

I would use the finished fiberglass sheets insted of formica. You can get them at lowes or home depot.

[crazyoldboatguy]

I would look into using an RV shower pan. I haven't installed mine yet but there are many different sizes, shapes and drain locations as options. They even include a coaming of differing heights so you can contain the water even while under way. This is the shape I purchased.

http://www.amazon.com/Lippert-301241...=sr_1_5&sr=8-5

[BigNickMontana]

All good points guys, and one upside of this boat is the head is huge, I'm 6'1" and have plenty of head room in there and I can move around freely in there, its one of the things I really like about this boat.

I think the preformed fiberglass panels are a great idea, I am going to do a lot of looking into that. Corain is proving to be very very expensive, like 900.00 a sheet expensive. It would work great but is cost prohibitive.

The good news is I have plenty of time to get it figured out.

[BigNickMontana]

Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy

I would look into using an RV shower pan. I haven't installed mine yet but there are many different sizes, shapes and drain locations as options. They even include a coaming of differing heights so you can contain the water even while under way. This is the shape I purchased.

http://www.amazon.com/Lippert-301241...=sr_1_5&sr=8-5

I will have to look into that.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

One other thought, if I may:

Generally, just as a rule of thumb, one tries to learn to live with the boat as it is for about a year, and then determine which are the most pressing needs, by sailing it and anchoring out in it. See what works and doesn't, for you, and then prioritize the jobs.

We were not in the PNW, but we lived aboard and cruised, using a sun shower in the cockpit (where a bucket of sea water rinses away your shower grunge) for 18 years, with the very occasional land shower when in marinas. So, it really depends a whole lot on how high on the hog you want to live. While you're in Seattle, it may be too cold for that, and you'd find out for sure that first year, but I can see why you'd like a below decks shower. Just find out all your regulations you have to deal with, and get a good idea of marine "water closets", so you don't wind up cobbling something together that will later prove unsatisfactory.

Ann

Ann is spot on. Live with your boat for a while. It's amazing how quickly the priorities change. You could find yourself into much higher priorities after a short time and be glad you haven't torn the whole head apart! Especially with a boat that old.
Further, if too much of the boat doesn't suit your needs... keep looking!

[BigNickMontana]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Ann is spot on. Live with your boat for a while. It's amazing how quickly the priorities change. You could find yourself into much higher priorities after a short time and be glad you haven't torn the whole head apart! Especially with a boat that old.
Further, if too much of the boat doesn't suit your needs... keep looking!

I have looked at a lot of boats, the design of the Spencer really suits my needs. Originally it did have a shower on board but someone removed it. I will not be surprised if I find that under the linoleum there is a shower pan there that simply got covered up.

The bit of time I spent on this boat I was so incredibly comfortable I knew it was the one I wanted.

[JPA Cate]

The bit of time I spent on this boat I was so incredibly comfortable I knew it was the one I wanted.

I am happy for you, Big Nick. I do understand about wanting to have your own shower, too. Mostly, the marina showers I have used have been spotless, but one fishermen's club's were so grotty it made my skin crawl. I hope you are able to get the boat!

Cheers,

Ann

[Tayana42]

Nick, in all my years of sailing (47) the one thing I've learned is always listen to Ann. My wife's name is Ann so I mean her AND Ann Cate. Ann (Cate that is) presents a great deal of wisdom along with years of hard won practical knowledge. (My wife too.)

Yours is an unusual experience coming from living in the space of a truck cab to feeling that any boat offers a luxurious amount of space. A hot shower of one's own is a great thing. I hope you can accomplish it without needing major demolition/reconstruction on you boat. With decent ventilation you probably don't need to create gasketed sealed spaces. Just keep the spray out and keep positive ventilation.


S/V B'Shert

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by BigNickMontana

I have looked at a lot of boats, the design of the Spencer really suits my needs. Originally it did have a shower on board but someone removed it. I will not be surprised if I find that under the linoleum there is a shower pan there that simply got covered up.

The bit of time I spent on this boat I was so incredibly comfortable I knew it was the one I wanted.

Nick here are a couple things
1) the head has hot and cold pressure water at the sink
2) to my knoweledge this boat never had a shower in it .
3) the existing marine head will handle your daily constitutional
4) the electrasan msdnext to the head meets discharge requirements for all but ndz areas.

[BigNickMontana]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Nick here are a couple things
1) the head has hot and cold pressure water at the sink
2) to my knoweledge this boat never had a shower in it .
3) the existing marine head will handle your daily constitutional
4) the electrasan msdnext to the head meets discharge requirements for all but ndz areas.

That is what I was thinking for the water supply, just get a sink fixture that has the pull out shower wand with the cut off switch so you can keep the temp constant.

[BigNickMontana]

Originally Posted by Tayana42

Nick, in all my years of sailing (47) the one thing I've learned is always listen to Ann. My wife's name is Ann so I mean her AND Ann Cate. Ann (Cate that is) presents a great deal of wisdom along with years of hard won practical knowledge. (My wife too.)

Yours is an unusual experience coming from living in the space of a truck cab to feeling that any boat offers a luxurious amount of space. A hot shower of one's own is a great thing. I hope you can accomplish it without needing major demolition/reconstruction on you boat. With decent ventilation you probably don't need to create gasketed sealed spaces. Just keep the spray out and keep positive ventilation.


S/V B'Shert

I have seen a lot of her posts here, she does seem to have a wealth of knowledge.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by BigNickMontana

That is what I was thinking for the water supply, just get a sink fixture that has the pull out shower wand with the cut off switch so you can keep the temp constant.

Dad had one that hooked up to the existing fawcett when you are here next I will describe to you how I was p.banning to add a shower till dad decided to sell the boat.

[BigNickMontana]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Dad had one that hooked up to the existing fawcett when you are here next I will describe to you how I was p.banning to add a shower till dad decided to sell the boat.

Sounds good.