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Old 21-11-2015, 09:13   #1
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In need of wood specialist....please.

i have 40 year o0old seems to be teak? per carpenter here, and as he is making me a new boom, due to rot from inside out, i chedked again my masts. ok.
should be done every 6 months to year. so i do eveery 6 months..when i go into and when io plan on leaving the marina for storm season.
ok so when i came in, my masts were both in good shape, asseen from outside and via binocs. when the windmill was placed on mizzen not quite to masthead, there was no rot seen. ok.
when i bough tthe boat i was advised there was rot at mizzen spreaders,. when i got to la cruz, sending aloft a worker showed otherwise, and i had the fitting repaired and ta daa,, no more signs of rotted wood.
hhmmm. yeah surveyors can be a very bad thing or a very good thing. i donot use em. by choice. but that is another story.
as i inspected my mizzen NOW, i found not only cracks at the glue line for approximately 2 feet, but also a longitudinal dimpling in the wood under and inclusive of the paint, exactly as i saw in boom. these were not visible inmay when i entered this marina. they were not visible 2 months ago.
ok. so i am fornikated...but the death wish is still nil, and so my request is...
as there is no crane nor other manner of removal of this mast here in barra, as the mast is stepped below deck level, and above keeel level, and as i might be able to find a worker here to add some lines to the area above the affected and involved wood so as to somewhat lessen the fatal effect of breakage at sea---what other securing and stabilizing maneuvers/tactics would you effect to this mayhem in order to transport the boat, under its own power, to a location 300ish miles uphill from here....yes engine works great. lest than 10 hours on new build. no, i do not trust going to sea with only one form of propulsion. and no i do not trust anything not to break on my way to mazatlan from here. heck it IS a boat... .
ok...
triatic affixes to mizzen at the spreaders....
yes i know about using a sailboat next to mine as a temp crane but i have yet to find a victim err volunteer to park next to my boat fro even a few minuets, much less allow work to be done on another boat....
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Old 22-11-2015, 09:00   #2
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Re: in need of wood specialist....please.

Don't use mizzen mast.? You don't need to, if you have doubts about the integrity of same. You more than likely have glue failure! Don't forget how old the boat is, and where it was built (not that it means poor workmanship) Just qc back then was some what marginal. If the wood is sound, and the only issue is the glue line, have the worker clean out the glue line as best he can, and mix some epoxy, wet the edges, then add micro balloons to the rest of the epoxy for consistency, and trowel it in!
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Old 22-11-2015, 13:38   #3
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Re: in need of wood specialist....please.

I would be AMAZED if the boom is teak...much too heavy for any kind of spar.

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Old 22-11-2015, 13:57   #4
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Re: in need of wood specialist....please.

Most often the mast and boom are Spruce. I agree the weight would be too much of an issue and if it were teak you wouldn't have the issues of rot.
It's almost impossible to trowel in thickened epoxy to create a good strong joint (and you shouldn't use micro balloons for structural purposes - cabosil is much stronger). I would suggest using a a router and guide system, and using a 1/4" straight bit centered on the seam rout out the joint exposing new and hopefully good wood. Then glue in a 1/4" spline the length of the seam with epoxy, fair down and repaint exposed wood. (I always prefer varnish so you can visually see whats going on with the wood - but I believe you said yours is painted. )
Cheers and best of luck...
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Old 22-11-2015, 13:57   #5
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Re: in need of wood specialist....please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike d. View Post
Don't use mizzen mast.? You don't need to, if you have doubts about the integrity of same. You more than likely have glue failure! Don't forget how old the boat is, and where it was built (not that it means poor workmanship) Just qc back then was some what marginal. If the wood is sound, and the only issue is the glue line, have the worker clean out the glue line as best he can, and mix some epoxy, wet the edges, then add micro balloons to the rest of the epoxy for consistency, and trowel it in!
OBVIOUSLY you have never owned nor examined thoroughly one of these incredible taiwanese boats.
i am still rolling on deck lauhing my ass off. glue failure. get real man, this is 40 year old boat. dang someone help me back up off this cabin sole-- i amin stitches. . thankyou for the laugh,
first of all, having learned to sail on antique wooden boats and having them as my first impractical love, i think i might know what rot looks like. \

secondly, i DO know shoddy workmanship--it is generally found in uniflite.blisters all over. .
look at clipper marine.. unsafe in any body of water.
now as for your manners--bashing a marque enjoyed by many is a rude nasty thing to do. you are not the owner of a formosa or a ct nor any other formosa built boat.. formosa is the island of taiwan, btw. i figgered ye needed a lesson....
why did you even bother to answer this thread posting? you have nothing positive to say/ it was not geared to you. di dyou answer merely to tell the world what you think of a marque you have never owned nor sailed on a long passage????
methinks of you as a troll. thankyou for your lack of assistance.
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Old 22-11-2015, 14:02   #6
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Re: in need of wood specialist....please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenega View Post
Most often the mast and boom are Spruce. I agree the weight would be too much of an issue and if it were teak you wouldn't have the issues of rot.
It's almost impossible to trowel in thickened epoxy to create a good strong joint (and you shouldn't use micro balloons for structural purposes - cabosil is much stronger). I would suggest using a a router and guide system, and using a 1/4" straight bit centered on the seam rout out the joint exposing new and hopefully good wood. Then glue in a 1/4" spline the length of the seam with epoxy, fair down and repaint exposed wood. (I always prefer varnish so you can visually see whats going on with the wood - but I believe you said yours is painted. )
Cheers and best of luck...
the rot is from fresh water ingress and yes teak rots in fresh water nicely.
the color is teak, the smell is teak, the characteristics are teak, but it is a lot lighter in weight, however, a hollow box boom will not be solid nor heavy. the stringers are same kind of wood as boom is made. it rotted from inside to outside and prolly in air, as it is not back as rotting teak occasionally becomes.
the carpenter is making the boom for me. he is who declared the wood to be teak. he should know his woods.
i presumed it was spruce, ,as it is so old, however, the yard musta had an excess of green teak that boat day, as i seem to have that. is why i am looking at the areas in which fresh water has sat for potentially prolonged time..... and after furycames...if you remember your geography, burma is a llot closer to taiwan than is sitka or spruceville.
and i still need someone who is smart ennough to figger out the best methods of stabilizing a mizzen mast above the spreaders for travel. and yes the boat needs to travel to the port that has a marine yard for hauling out boats. this place has none. i must go 300ish miles to get to a reasonably priced yard.
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Old 22-11-2015, 14:56   #7
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Re: in need of wood specialist....please.

Paint is not good in moist atmosphere, stops wood from drying out and after 3 months warm and moist under the paint the fungas is established. Need a fungicide.

Chenega repair comments sound good to me but don't forget the fungicide.
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Old 22-11-2015, 15:04   #8
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Re: in need of wood specialist....please.

BTW Zee, very sorry to hear of this troublesome issue, I pray you get the right help.
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Old 22-11-2015, 15:09   #9
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

The best way to stabilize a mast is to fish it--put a stiff plank on either side and lash everything together with miles of twine, wrapped 'round and 'round. This is labor intensive and will add a lot of weight aloft, but if done well will prevent the mast from snapping. If the spar can't be salvaged (perhaps more rot is discovered elsewhere), I for one would opt for aluminum spars.
Either way, good luck.
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Old 22-11-2015, 15:26   #10
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

Zee,
I also would recommend reinforcing the weakened area with "sister" wood on the exterior. Some adhesive ( that is not impossible to remove ) to hold your external sister planks while lashing with para cord will be a very strong non destructive means of strengthening the mast.


Good luck in the move
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Old 22-11-2015, 20:25   #11
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

the mast i build and booms willnot be painted. i will be better able to see the wood.
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Old 22-11-2015, 20:43   #12
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz View Post
The best way to stabilize a mast is to fish it--put a stiff plank on either side and lash everything together with miles of twine, wrapped 'round and 'round. This is labor intensive and will add a lot of weight aloft, but if done well will prevent the mast from snapping. If the spar can't be salvaged (perhaps more rot is discovered elsewhere), I for one would opt for aluminum spars.
Either way, good luck.
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I really think Zee is a carbon fiber sort of sailor. Perhaps painted to look like teak.

Good luck with the repairs.
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Old 22-11-2015, 21:53   #13
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Re: in need of wood specialist....please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike d. View Post
Don't use mizzen mast.? You don't need to, if you have doubts about the integrity of same. You more than likely have glue failure! Don't forget how old the boat is, and where it was built (not that it means poor workmanship) Just qc back then was some what marginal. If the wood is sound, and the only issue is the glue line, have the worker clean out the glue line as best he can, and mix some epoxy, wet the edges, then add micro balloons to the rest of the epoxy for consistency, and trowel it in!

OBVIOUSLY you have never owned nor examined thoroughly one of these incredible taiwanese boats.
i am still rolling on deck lauhing my ass off. glue failure. get real man, this is 40 year old boat. dang someone help me back up off this cabin sole-- i amin stitches. . thankyou for the laugh,
first of all, having learned to sail on antique wooden boats and having them as my first impractical love, i think i might know what rot looks like. \

secondly, i DO know shoddy workmanship--it is generally found in uniflite.blisters all over. .
look at clipper marine.. unsafe in any body of water.
now as for your manners--bashing a marque enjoyed by many is a rude nasty thing to do. you are not the owner of a formosa or a ct nor any other formosa built boat.. formosa is the island of taiwan, btw. i figgered ye needed a lesson....
why did you even bother to answer this thread posting? you have nothing positive to say/ it was not geared to you. di dyou answer merely to tell the world what you think of a marque you have never owned nor sailed on a long passage????
methinks of you as a troll. thankyou for your lack of assistance.
Z--I think you're way off the reservation on this. M.D. wasn't bashing early Taiwan boats. Their many shortcomings are relatively common knowledge throughout the yachting community. Furthermore your expectations are unrealistic expecting every post to be on the mark or even helpful. The best you might hope to expect is for most posts to be on topic, even if not relevant.

As for the rotten rig, you should have had it surveyed.
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Old 22-11-2015, 22:45   #14
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

Panope,

Do you know what the safest way to get Zeehag's boat to Mazatlan is?

Maybe I'm out of line here, but what I see is that what someone might have or could have done in the past, well that may be a valid lesson, in it's own right, but is unlikely to happen where one is pinching pennies.

Therefore, helpful, doable suggestions would really help more. I personally lack the knowledge to know if the sistering plan would work for the delivery of her boat to Mazatlan. My concern is that if her boat's mizzen mast is rotten at the spreader bases, that sistering it in the manner suggested might prove to be ineffective. It was what I thought of first, but then started asking myself, "what could go wrong?", so while I might try that, in her shoes, I'd really appreciate the information she asked for, and from someone who knows more than me. I had some other ideas, as well, but am hesitant to put them forward, because they're only ideas, but without solid knowledge to base them on.

We're looking for an ingenious temporary fix that will allow her to get her boat the 300 n. mi. in question, intact. It's not all that far, really, but a long way with a bad mast, that she needs for the triadic stay....

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Old 22-11-2015, 23:00   #15
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

One could consider not using the mizzen and providing temporary running backs to replace the function of the triatic stay. I'd be pretty leery of any scheme to sister the mast in way of the spreaders... hard to get the new timber in the right place to shore up the highly loaded spreader area.

And Zee, if your boom(s) are truly teak, then replacing them with spruce, fir, or some other more suitable timber will make an improvement in weight distribution on your boat... and even a leaky teaky can benefit from that!

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