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Old 22-11-2015, 23:59   #16
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

Zee--Agree with Jim Cate that you could just rig running backstays for your main mast use and relieve the load from the mizzen entirely. That can allow you to sail an indefinite period although you need to deal with the mizzen sooner rather than later if you want to save the mast. You may already have running backstays that you don't use?

Once the mainmast is stayed, one COULD pull the mizzen mast with crane or a rigged A-frame but if you've not done it before or someone with you hasn't done so, it's not going to happen.

Once the mast is down, you can inspect, deal with rot, may be able to do repairs and reuse the existing mast. Don't throw it out until you know that it's really far gone. FAR gone. Built up wood masts like yours can be repaired and repaired.

We had the good fortune of a wood spar builder being in the yard with us while we were doing our boat's rebuild. He did a lot of insurance repairs, termite repairs, rot repairs and for 8 months we had a direct view of his mast bench as well as everything he was working on next to it--right from the deck of our boat. From chatting with him and observing his work, we learned many tricks of the trade and saw how really easy many repairs are.

Confident from what we saw, we personally inspected and re-glued a bird's mouth scarf atop our mainmast, re-did several smaller spar repairs, used a bird's mouth method to scarf a new end onto our foremast, scarfed new tips on two spreaders and made a new boomkin for our 80 year old traditional boat and we built a jig and easily did a major mainmast repair at the spreader where there had been rot around the wire exit for the spreader lights. A good spar maker or experienced woodboat repair person could do similar repairs for you that may seem huge, but they're not. Feel free to PM for details of jigs and thoughts if you find a good spar person at some point to do inspections and the work. We can look at pics and discuss.

About weight of wood on spars: There are even heavy OAK spars out there. Not the best of ideas, but they're out there. Similarly, teak and other woods do get used (not for masts that I know of but for other spars including booms, boomkins, bowsprits) though fir and spruce are far more common because they're lighter weight. Compared to a mast, making a box-beam boom is very easy so if you do have excessive rotand have the ability to get (good) fir or good Sitka spruce booms made, that's nice. But--nice is nice and if all you need are repairs, go for the repairs and don't let folks tell you your heavy booms aren't OK.

I wouldn't go from your wood spars to aluminum unless you just have no choice. Wood spars can last a very long time and are very, very repairable in remote locations with simple tools.

G'luck!
Brenda
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Old 23-11-2015, 10:16   #17
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Re: in need of wood specialist....please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Z--I think you're way off the reservation on this. M.D. wasn't bashing early Taiwan boats. Their many shortcomings are relatively common knowledge throughout the yachting community. Furthermore your expectations are unrealistic expecting every post to be on the mark or even helpful. The best you might hope to expect is for most posts to be on topic, even if not relevant.

As for the rotten rig, you should have had it surveyed.

ha ha ha i survey my rig every 6 months. when ibought the boat, a report filled with misinformation came with her... it was called survey report, and this boat contained 4 of em in her history.
mine i did was more thorough.
i am in the tropics, wherein wood everything has a tendency to overdose on fresh water. this situation did not exist in may. nor did it exist in august. nor did it exist in sept.
as i owned this boat since 2008, i woulda known about any rot allegedly actual. the reeported spreader rot was actually a fail fitting, which has beeen repaired and reinstalled. there was no rot at that time.
oops.
now it is here. rot advances rapidly in tropics, as many different insects love to chew on wood here. bees, ants, termites.. many others as well. hopefully the wtf wood used was resistent to most insects--it did last 40 years without problems.
ok so ..
as sistering makes heavy, how badly dead would i be made should i decide to use soft shrouds to attempt to control freeking gonna break mizzenmast?
or derigging mizzen and cutting it short. i need to build a new one anyway, as it is time. i could lash the mizzen to mainmast for transport??
ideas?
the dimpling and worst signs of the rot are seen , now, at and below the spreaders. we could possibly rig lines to control the motion and breakage ??? if i find a brave soul i want to also remove the windmill and mount from atop mizzen.
nd yes i would love to save my spars--i am anticipting hell on way to yard in mazatlan..,is 300 miles uphill, not easy on a boat.
i think parota is a good wood for the job.. pretty. the teak boom wasnt as heavy as one woul dhave thought . i cou deasily lift it. and i am not overly worried about weight on this boat. i s a heavy cruiser. born to be heavy and happy.
i am concerned with successfully arriving in mazatlan not dead and not destroyed and not under tow. ok i can deal better with tow than dead and destroyed.
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Old 23-11-2015, 10:43   #18
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Re: in need of wood specialist....please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
...this situation did not exist in may. nor did it exist in august. nor did it exist in sept.
as i owned this boat since 2008, i woulda known about any rot ...
i am concerned with successfully arriving in mazatlan not dead and not destroyed and not under tow. ok i can deal better with tow than dead and destroyed.
You give yourself way too much credit, especially your understanding of how long it takes for wood to rot. That rot did not just suddenly spring into existence. Think of all the preventative maintenance that didn't get done prior to the sudden appearance of a condition you now deem unsafe for even a 300 mile passage along our tranquil coast

Puerto Vallarta is closer but, if you really must choose Mazatlan, just lash the weak stuff, keep rigging loads low by not over-canvasing, and try to pick the right weather window. There are several places to duck into between Barra de Navidad and Mazatlan.

Regarding the free (old) survey that came with your boat, you got what you paid for. A rigging survey on a 40 year old rig might have seemed like a good idea to others.
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Old 23-11-2015, 10:58   #19
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

correction -- we did a bird's mouth scarf onto the end of our fore boom (not foremast )

You may find some old salts around you who do know how to do an a-frame or better yet can assist you using what is called a "union purchase" -- this is a means of using two boats on either side of you with much taller masts to pull your mast. It would mean finding two old salts with big boats probably unlikely...
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Old 23-11-2015, 11:13   #20
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

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...what other securing and stabilizing maneuvers/tactics would you effect to this mayhem in order to transport the boat, under its own power, to a location 300ish miles uphill from here....yes engine works great....
Zee get two pieces of 1/8 inch steel plate 3 feet long (assuming the problem area is 2 feet long) cut to overlap the spar by 1 inch on both sides, drill 6 holes at the overlap edges to fit 3/16 bolts to make a sandwich of the mast. I meant mild steel, anything you can find and paint is optional to avoid rust streaks and stain on your deck. It will be a wee bit heavy but its temporary and will survive the 300 miles.
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Old 23-11-2015, 11:24   #21
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

Her problem of unloading the mizzen is solved by the simple use of running backstays. Destructively adding plates and holes to the mast of unknown condition is risky without purpose IMO. But if she chooses not to move the boat, then there's further discussion to be had about repairs and removal of the mast.
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Old 23-11-2015, 11:38   #22
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery View Post
Her problem of unloading the mizzen is solved by the simple use of running backstays. Destructively adding plates and holes to the mast of unknown condition is risky without purpose IMO. But if she chooses not to move the boat, then there's further discussion to be had about repairs and removal of the mast.
I am glad she has solved the problem although I missed her post.
I did not see anyone recommending drilling holes thru a damaged mast!!!
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Old 23-11-2015, 11:39   #23
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

the only 40 yr old stuff involved with rig are the spars. they are original equipment. the standing and running rigging was changed in 2004. po changed it in lost angels.
i inspect my rig every 3-6 months. there was no cracking nor dimpling in may. there was none in august nor sept. mast seemed strong enough in june to add a windmill. now i am removing that in favor of changing the added weight to bandaids, unless the carpenters son and another worker in marina can effect repairs under supervision of carpenter, while in air. THAT would be ideal. then i would merely remove windmill to give the mast a chance. THEN i can limp into la cruz, visit with my friendly rigger, and sail into mazatlan. didnt wanna stop in la cruz, but.....

oh yes, and when yer paying someone to effect repairs and maintenance, you would think they would do all the work they said they did, and looked like they did, but did not. yes i hire out, as i am old with disabilities

oh and i need to relocate boat as there are no repair places here. no crane , no haul yard, nothing. this is vacatonland.
ok as for smooth seas here--- you DO realize i will be bashing north then east against a 2 ish kt southerly drift and winds which usually go from nw to se, exactly along this coast, do you not??? and swells happen usually 2 meters with 17 -21 second timing, depending on locale, and cabo corrientes is no picnic, as it is , as named, a cape of currents. on a lee shore. WITH effect of northers from soc. then as i round corner, the beam winds, from north, and chop are not so good on limping craft. is flog the rig passage. southward is easy peasy, but i amNOT going downhill, unfortunately. were i so doing, i would not need informattion regarding stabilization of a problem which rapidly developed since arrival in this lagoon and exacerbated due to cane action and fresh water stagnation inside mast and boom and higher than high humidity.
i watched as the boom deteriorated within a year from absolutely zero problem, seen nor upon examination of wood and fittings, done by me, to what it is now, which tells me the mizzen mast has similar problems as i see the dimpling paint and crack from a hole, which is obvious. there was no cracking visible before this examination.
unless i can repair it while here, which would definitely be a challenge, i will need to create ways for it not to kill whoever is at helm when it fails. nor to go thru deck.

with wood, the area of damage is generally 3 tiimes the visible area plus some magical number picked out the sky. yes that works. as the visible area of damage estimates at 2-4 ft, i presume changing an 8 ft board would be at MINIMUM a solution, but...we must be examined by a carpenter for sure
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Old 23-11-2015, 12:13   #24
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

Go south. be part of the new Acapulco.
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Old 23-11-2015, 12:44   #25
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

Zee, I know you will bring your boat through this current challenge as you have all the others. The idea of sistering supports on the mizzen and taking the strain off the triatic by using running back stays or jury rigged back stays seems like the best plan. Be safe and take care of yourself too.


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Old 05-12-2015, 10:56   #26
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

So Zee, any progress on your mizzen?


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Old 05-12-2015, 12:34   #27
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

ok so thai cedar looks like teak. not bad. still gonna replace with parota boom.
that not here yet.
mechanic not here yet and electrickerian not here yet ...
when i can grab mast climber i will remove windmill and mountfrom masthead n tie lines on mizzen and secure elsewhere. just in case. .
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Old 05-12-2015, 13:15   #28
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

Cedar was used by the Egyptians for their caskets and it lasts forever! (the right species)
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Old 05-12-2015, 14:39   #29
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

Zee, I hope you get it sorted soon and use what help you need. No risk taking with mast climbing to remove the windmill. Even spring chickens can use some help now and again.


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Old 05-12-2015, 15:24   #30
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Re: In need of wood specialist....please.

there are some skinny young fellas here to get to go up there, and some others to help--i just have to coordinate them and ... herd cats...
just wanna get to mazatlan before boat falls apart- so. i was advised the rot aint so bad and i can make it .. yes remove windmill and mount... then with fella up high, have lines placed and go from there... we will always make it..somehow... but i would rather be safer than sorry....
working on mechanic and electrickerian to come to boat to fix that which needs .. isnt much--all hoses and remove a switch that was placed for alternator which was not a problem, whereas the switch is a problem...and whatever electrical problems were created in the name of use of a puter using 10-12 ams per hour while at anchor..lol that doesnt work inmy boat. low draw only here.
my friends in mazatlan know i am coming, will be on standby as i arrive....

wish i were still a spring chicken....
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