Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-08-2009, 09:49   #1
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Royal Oak, Michigan, USA
Boat: 1977 Cuttyhunk 59 Ketch, "Diva" in Trinidad
Posts: 175
Images: 276
Send a message via Yahoo to Geoff S.
I'm Back on the Job! And I Have Stainless on the Brain...

Ahoy, Friends!

Long time no post. At the risk of over-sharing, I filed for divorce in January, and it's all done and over as of last week. To be honest, it was painful to even think about the boat in the interim, with the spectre looming of losing her outright or not being able to afford to keep her (same thing, really). But now Miss Cheatin' Heart is gone gone gone (spread the word to all those 30-something-to-40-something single sailing gals out there ), and I am free to re-embrace my Second Career with unfettered zeal.

Today's obsession: Stainless Steel.

I have grand plans in this department. Very little of her old stainless superstructure is salvagable. I think I can polish up the old stanchions, but the aft rail, bow pulpit and mast hoops were poorly designed and badly executed. Her davits (which I found damned handy) were made of ugly mild-steel box stock. So, maybe excepting the stanchions, I'm starting over from scratch.

I saw a ketch of roughly Diva's size down in Trini with solid ss rails all the way around, with lovely pivoting boarding ladders attatched near the gates, and fell deeply in love with the concept. So, my project list at this point includes:

1) Hard rail all the way around; gates port and stbd; pivoting swing-down boarding ladders mounted just aft of gates
2) Full-height bow pulpit allowing headsail/anchor work in nasty seas without fear of MOB;
3) Aft rail and gate;
4) Big-ass davits that won't even know there's a dinghy on 'em; saddle for mizzen boom; premeditated mounting surfaces for a couple big solar panels;
4) Bimini frame, aft cockpit (canvas can mount forward to hard dodger);
5) Mast hoops, properly spaced from mast and designed to rest comfortably against when heeling;
6) Dorade vent guards, and several other minor projects I'm forgetting.

First, O Sages of Cruisers Forum, educate me about grades of stainless. There exists a particularly low-carbon variety of 316, "316L". Is the inevitable price delta worth it? Is it as widely available? Also, I'm told I need to specify a "polish level" on the tube I get. I want "Lovely Shiny Wow"...but somehow I doubt that's the industry term.

Sourcing: there is a very good custom metal shop right in my boatyard in Trinidad. They do beautiful work at a very reasonable price compared to US labor prices. The problem is that stainless stock is outrageously expensive down there. So, I hope to find it up here and ship it down. I'd be grateful for any leads. I'm waiting to hear from my guys down in Trini re optimal tube stock lengths and overall quantity.

So, Gurus, do that voodoo and weigh-in as you like re design, metallurgy and source...thanks!

Love,
Geoff
__________________

__________________
"Give a man a fish, and he can eat for a day. Give a man a boat, and he can't afford to eat for the rest of his life."
Geoff S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2009, 10:06   #2
Eternal Member
 
imagine2frolic's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Las Brisas Panama AGAIN!
Boat: Simpson, Catamaran, 46ft. IMAGINE
Posts: 4,508
Images: 123
Geoff,

Welcome back, and check into oceangirl's site here for soulmates.......i2f
__________________

__________________
SAILING is not always a slick magazine cover!
BORROWED..No single one of is as smart as all of us!
http://sailingwithcancer.blogspot.com/
imagine2frolic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2009, 11:09   #3
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Royal Oak, Michigan, USA
Boat: 1977 Cuttyhunk 59 Ketch, "Diva" in Trinidad
Posts: 175
Images: 276
Send a message via Yahoo to Geoff S.
Thanks i2F...and you're right, OceanGirl is a fine-lookin' sailor! (And I like her choice of boat, too. I had a beloved CD30 myself...)
__________________
"Give a man a fish, and he can eat for a day. Give a man a boat, and he can't afford to eat for the rest of his life."
Geoff S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2009, 11:49   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff S. View Post
Thanks i2F...and you're right, OceanGirl is a fine-lookin' sailor! (And I like her choice of boat, too. I had a beloved CD30 myself...)
What was that old saying: "A fool returns to his folly as a dog returns to his own vomit"

If one can't keep one boat afloat how's he going to manage another, without time to reflect on his mistakes.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2009, 12:37   #5
Registered User
 
Endojoe's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: D/FW, TX
Boat: No Boat right now :-(
Posts: 77
Send a message via ICQ to Endojoe Send a message via AIM to Endojoe Send a message via MSN to Endojoe Send a message via Yahoo to Endojoe Send a message via Skype™ to Endojoe
LMAO. Great quote delmarrey...roughly from Proverbs, I believe. I'm quite partial to the below assessment of relationships, some with people...some with boats.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	strife03.jpg
Views:	143
Size:	42.5 KB
ID:	9604  
__________________
Endojoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2009, 12:48   #6
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Royal Oak, Michigan, USA
Boat: 1977 Cuttyhunk 59 Ketch, "Diva" in Trinidad
Posts: 175
Images: 276
Send a message via Yahoo to Geoff S.
Touché, DM! Nyuk. Now, now, a man can admire a fine sheer-line without needing to acquire the vessel...
__________________
"Give a man a fish, and he can eat for a day. Give a man a boat, and he can't afford to eat for the rest of his life."
Geoff S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2009, 15:31   #7
Provocateur & Raconteur
 
knottybuoyz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Iroquois, Ontario
Boat: Bateau.com TW31 Modified
Posts: 3,583
Images: 87
Welcome back Geoff. Wondered where you got off to. Looking forward to seeing more pics of your boat as you progress.

Cheers....
__________________
Yours Aye! Rick
~^~^~^^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~~^~^~~^~^~^^~~^~^
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it, cried beside it and then threatened to haul the POS outside and burn it!"
knottybuoyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2009, 21:53   #8
Registered User
 
donw_s11's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Boat: Irwin Citation 38
Posts: 40
316L is for when you need to weld 316

Hi Geoff,

There are others here who know more than I, but AFAIK the purpose of low carbon 316 (ie 316L) is for welding. If you are not going to weld on the piece, use normal 316. If you are going to weld it (pulpits?) then use 316L.

Good luck with it,

Don W.
__________________
donw_s11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-08-2009, 02:16   #9
Moderator
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
My dream is to...

My dream is to be able to do nice stainless welds on my boat.

Please tell us (with pics if possible) how you do it and how you get on.
__________________
Rust never sleeps
Boracay Blog.
Boracay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-08-2009, 07:37   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 56
Some tips

Hi Geoff,

dont know anything about prices overthere but maybe can give some
help regarding the material.

First of all 316 and 316 L is the material to use.Instead of these numbers
there are material numbers as 1.4401,1.4401,1.4571.

The material 1.4401/04 is much better for polishing the 1.4571 has Titanium inclouded which makes it more resistant ( waste water tanks f.e.) but makes it much harder to polish nicely because the Titantium is
so hard.
All the numbers are f.e. used on MEGA-YACHTS so should be o.k. for us
normal yachties.

Material length are normaly for tubes: 6 metres for round bar and
flat bar 3-4 metres and plates do have three sizes

Yes, you're right to say you want it nice and shiny is not far enough
for the industry to know what you mean. First of all the more shiny, the
more expensive.
See f.e. tube is produced out of plates, bended then welded. After welding normaly the welding should be passivatet. So this is the first
you should ask after.
If you want it shiny i would say you want it polished to high gloss.
( not to mirror gloss, this is mega-yacht-standard and far too expensive)

I suppose you know how it works polishing metal in general, start with
Korn 200 to 400 to 600 to 800 to 1000 to 2000 and then polishing.

So ask them how many steps they have in sanding the tube and you
see the higher up the better ( at least here in Europe). A smooth surface
also protects you much better for any kind of upcomming rust.

Hope this helps you a bit and my english was not too bad for understanding, just ask otherwise, and sending regards from
Germany

Lampe
__________________
lampe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-08-2009, 08:44   #11
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Royal Oak, Michigan, USA
Boat: 1977 Cuttyhunk 59 Ketch, "Diva" in Trinidad
Posts: 175
Images: 276
Send a message via Yahoo to Geoff S.
Thanks all, great info. Boracay, I'll certainly take photos (if you've been to my photo album you'll know I'm not shy about that!) but I probably won't be able to shed much light on the how-to; I intend to let the pros do the work while I stand back grinning and writing checks. Yup, Don, that's my understanding too, that the "L" means less corrosion at the welds someday; good tip to think about where I'll need welding and where I won't.

Herr Lampe, danke shoen! Great succinct primmer on stainless; just the info I needed. Is there a different material number for 316 vs. 316L? I see in your next paragraph, you refer to "1.4401/04"...is 1.4404 the 316L? And it looks like I'll want "high gloss" as opposed to "mirror". While Diva sure seems like a Mega-Yacht to me (see check-writing reference above), I'm still one lottery ticket away from having Mega-Yacht-depth pockets.

Now...does anybody know a good reasonable source for ss tube?
__________________
"Give a man a fish, and he can eat for a day. Give a man a boat, and he can't afford to eat for the rest of his life."
Geoff S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-08-2009, 09:47   #12
Registered User
 
anjou's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Malvernshire, on the sunny side of the hill.
Boat: 50' steel canal and river cruiser
Posts: 1,905
Hello Geoff, having seen so many of your wonderful pics, its nice to have you back. ps, did you know I was once a Lloyds coded welder? oh yeah, ......im single too !!!!!
__________________
www.amy-artimis.blogspot.com
anjou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-08-2009, 17:55   #13
Moderator
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
Beautiful looking work...

Beautiful looking work. I can see why you want nice stainless.

Are you making up templates or a temporary structure to give to your welder?

I'm jealous!
__________________
Rust never sleeps
Boracay Blog.
Boracay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-08-2009, 19:04   #14
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Royal Oak, Michigan, USA
Boat: 1977 Cuttyhunk 59 Ketch, "Diva" in Trinidad
Posts: 175
Images: 276
Send a message via Yahoo to Geoff S.
Aw, shucks, thanks folks for the kind words!

Boracay, templates are probably in my future for things like the pulpit, davits, ladders and bimini frame; the toprail is pretty much a no-brainer (mostly a function of getting the geometry of the stanchions right, I would think).

And Miss Anjou...(that's a pear, n'est ce pas?) you're a sailer, a welder, and a diesel mechanic?? And way too cute to be single?? I need to start pricing flights to Worcestershire...

Cheers,
Geoff
__________________
"Give a man a fish, and he can eat for a day. Give a man a boat, and he can't afford to eat for the rest of his life."
Geoff S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-08-2009, 11:16   #15
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Royal Oak, Michigan, USA
Boat: 1977 Cuttyhunk 59 Ketch, "Diva" in Trinidad
Posts: 175
Images: 276
Send a message via Yahoo to Geoff S.
Ok, now that I've hijacked my own thread , back on topic...

Another consideration might be wall thickness, too, eh? Is there some "marine standard" for ss that corresponds to "schedule" (as in, "schedule 80", "schedule 40", etc.)?
__________________

__________________
"Give a man a fish, and he can eat for a day. Give a man a boat, and he can't afford to eat for the rest of his life."
Geoff S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for a job in UK, Southcoast! freetime Crew Archives 0 29-03-2009 03:57
What a Job ksmith Pacific & South China Sea 1 13-01-2009 06:33
right brain left brain tyrntlzrdking Off Topic Forum 39 20-09-2008 19:40
ST7000 Autopilot Brain markpj23 Classifieds Archive 0 07-08-2007 12:22
ST7000 Autopilot Brain markpj23 Classifieds Archive 1 02-07-2007 17:59



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:11.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.