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Old 13-07-2015, 13:58   #31
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Re: I have had it with towing the Dingy

The folks on this Westsail 32 have a portabote, I remember recently they commented it was mostly good:

Porta-bote | Sundowner Sails Again
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Old 13-07-2015, 15:06   #32
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Re: I have had it with towing the Dingy

Greetings Idorakeeper.

I read of your frustration. And of course see you want to know about davits on your boat.

I am a practical person. But, a big part of my enjoyment of sailing and sailboats is based on aesthetics too. I love to see beautiful boats under sail. And while I am an artist (and that makes me a professional aesthete ), I am first a sailor, so a beautiful boat design has a lot of "satisfaction value" to me.

Despite smaller spaces, and possibly more maintenance, some boats (especially woodies) are in a different class and give a different level of satisfaction. I see the Ingrid that way.

I have looked at many Ingrids, because I like traditional styled boats (see my CF Profile album why), I admire the Atkin designed boats and the Ingrid is a popular and nicely drawn (designed) one.

I think it looks great because of the beautiful lines and distinctive narrow canoe stern etc. Lovely. That stern is a distinctive and attractive feature. I would avoid messing that up.

So, if I owned one, I would avoid putting anything large on the stern (with exception of a wind vane).

I think a big (and tall) davit with big inflatable dinghy hanging off it would look like…carp. Actually… CARP.

Instead, I would do one of the two things:

1. Buy a Porta-Bote and keep it folded down on the rail or cabin top. When flat, it is discrete.

or

2. Buy a Nesting Dinghy and put it on the cabin top.
Yes. I know you said you don't want to block the view forward. The dinghy I have in mind is only 20" high when nested. It is a tradeoff. When nested it may also fit on your foredeck.

Which Nesting Dinghy??
Everyone has their favorite.
After much review and consideration, the one I would pick for my own boat would be….(drumroll)…the PT Eleven Nesting Dinghy.

PT Eleven Nesting Dinghy home page

Why that dinghy?
Many reasons, all of which I won't go into here. But here are a FEW of the reasons I would pick it for my boat:

1. Nesting Ability
It is small and only weighs 95 pounds (hull alone) and when in two pieces that means only lifting about 45 pounds. That makes it very easy to take and put on a boat, etc. But, it can sail or row with more than two people in it.

2. Easy and Quick assembly, even when it is in the water! I found it amazing that it takes just 20 seconds to join the two pieces together and be ready to row and go. WOW!

3. It sails very well, and looks like it could outsail any other similar dinghy. I have looked at videos of other popular dinghies sailing with their optional sail kits, and the easy conclusion is that some are real pigs. A nimble sailing dinghy is something I value, for fun and practical purposes. See the videos to draw your own conclusion. Did I mention that this looks like a FUN boat to have?

4. It has a very "classy" look that I think would be very fitting for a traditional styled boat like the Ingrid (and others). I don't care for blunt bowed pram style dinghys.

Those words…are just words. It is best to see for oneself so view this video of short highlight clips from some of the many videos on Youtube about the PT11.



There are more reasons, but that should be enough for you (or anyone) to look at it seriously.

It does cost more than a "Walker Bay" or similar inexpensive plastic dinghy.

How does this cost compare to buying or having custom made a davit setup for your boat? I don't know about the dollar cost comparison.

But I do know that I would not like the aesthetic "cost" of the davits with inflatable as far as how they affect the appearance of a pretty boat like an Ingrid. That would just be carp to do that to an Ingrid.

In sum, I would NOT buy dinghy davits for a Ingrid. I would instead buy a PT11 and use it instead.

And, IF you did this and later wanted to sell your Ingrid with your PT11, I think it would be an appealing feature to traditional boat enthusiasts, more than a big inflatable and big and tall davit set on the stern.

I hope you and others find this helpful.
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Old 13-07-2015, 15:08   #33
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Re: I have had it with towing the Dingy

Quote:
Originally Posted by jglosz View Post
Hey I've been lurking a while, but this topic directly affects me as I am preparing to put an offer on a big Hunter that comes with a davit, which I am not sure I like. Besides adding a few feet to the docked length of the boat (hence increased slip costs) I also enjoy the usual view out the back of the boat. With the aft cockpit of the Hunter, with the dingy stored on the davit, that means having that dingy in our face all the time.

What is every one else's experience with this?

Thank you
I have a Hunter 44 with the davits. No yard that I know of will charge you for davits as boat length (some will charge you for a bow sprit). Having a dink in davits is an expensive luxury for coastal cruising. Be thankful that your prospective boat has them. Whoever put them on paid dearly.
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Old 13-07-2015, 15:14   #34
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Re: I have had it with towing the Dingy

Idora Keeper,

That's a tough one. I don't see how you can really do it and keep clear of the mizzen boom, too. The very small British type of tender might do for you, but I sure understand the love affair with stable inflatables.

I was wondering if an inflatable floor roll up dinghy would work for you. Of course they're not instant deploy, but with an electric inflator pump, it can be pretty quick. It's less than 5 min. for our 3.5 m. RIB.

I'd like to thank the poster who posted the drawings of the Ingrid, a real good memory jogger in terms of all you have to consider with the project.

Also, you might consider a nesting hard dinghy, which could be secured under the main boom....or, possibly under the jib boom--how much space do you have there? The dinghy would be lower in your vision and not such a problem as on top the cabin. Some friends of ours have a 36 foot cutter, so not too much room between the inner stay and the mast, but have put a nesting dinghy there, that breaks down into two separate dinghies, or can be used as one long, easily driven one. It is an elegant and practical solution. If you're interested, PM me, and I'll see if they still have the details for the plans for it, and can send a picture.
Ann

On edit: I see Steady Hand's been there already with the nesting dinghy concept. I tend to agree about the fact that the dinghy-in-the-davits look would not be a felicitous addition to those lines; and also, IMHO, are unsuitable for ocean usage.

Good luck with it, Idora Keeper.

A.
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Old 13-07-2015, 15:29   #35
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Re: I have had it with towing the Dingy

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
I must say after reading the thing about the burnt sailboat, a deflatable looks less inviting. If he had not had a dink he could get in the water, he would have spent hours floating in the water. Never a good prospect.
That is a good point.

A fire on a boat is not something that is going to take much time to make the boat dangerous inside and outside (on deck).
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Old 13-07-2015, 17:03   #36
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Re: I have had it with towing the Dingy

Old Swampy, how does that Drop Line/caribiner/sea anchor arrangement work? Hard to visualize
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Old 13-07-2015, 17:16   #37
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Re: I have had it with towing the Dingy

Ummmm whats the real reasons why davits are good on a cruising boat?

1) So the bottom does not get growth.
2) So its more difficult to steal.

After 5.5 years of scrubbing Li'l Dinks bum every 2 weeks the last 6 months wiv my big davits have been like a cruise in paradise.


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Old 13-07-2015, 17:31   #38
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Re: I have had it with towing the Dingy

+1 on the porta-bote. We love ours for a great many reasons. Davits be damned... There are no davits on a double ender! And transoms be damned too. har har
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Old 13-07-2015, 17:46   #39
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Re: I have had it with towing the Dingy

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Originally Posted by Old Swampy View Post
IMHO lifting the dink, while better for sailing, is a step toward a less safe condition. My dinghy is towed from a a short line through a rope clutch. Open the rope clutch and drop the dinghy as soon as someone goes OB. To keep the dink from blowing away, you also need to deploy a small sea anchor previously connected to the drop line and stored in a small tube pointing aft. The drop line has a loop at the aft end to which the dinghy painter clips with a carabiner. The instruction to drop the dinghy, if I fall overboard, is the first, and most often made, request I make of my wife. The dink has a short rope ladder on one side of the outboard mounting location. The dink is a lot easier to see than a person in the water. If the person OB gets into the dink quickly, he or she might avoid serious hypothermia. Certainly his or her prospects are better.
Boy, I am ashamed to say I never thought of that. I had a person ovbd last year with the dink in tow. It took 4 passes to get them together. However, the boat was moving too fast for them to climb into the dinghy. It would have been so easy to just let the dink loose. Thanks for the light.
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Old 13-07-2015, 18:02   #40
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Re: I have had it with towing the Dingy

Thank you to all who have responded. As usual a very astute group. I cannot take credit for the reference to CARP. This nautical term was defined by Dockhead during his flirtation with new davits. Most posters sought to urge him to avoid CARP all over the stern of his vessel. The fact that I am even considering allowing CARP is a measure of my frustration.
In warmer weather I carry two nice Pygmy Penguino's to enjoy otters and seals and other creatures as well as the scenery in general. I might be able to get by with the dink rolled up and lashed down over the lazarette hatch since most of my dock lines are flemished when under way and normally I don't access that area often. I can hang the outboard off a stantion (3.5 Merc). Steadyhand has grasped the essential nature of Idora....she's beautiful (don't tell my wife). But better yet she has a character under sail that thrills me.
I would love to have a single leg derrick for MOB situations but the mizzen boom limits that option...Panope has the suggested it..maybe the geometry could be worked out....Hmmmmmm. Anyway, something will be done. Here is a picture.
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Old 13-07-2015, 19:20   #41
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Re: I have had it with towing the Dingy

Old Swampy.....
There is so much to think about in your post!

An older co-worker told once.... "There is a lot of value in white hair"

Very well said!
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Old 13-07-2015, 20:36   #42
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Re: I have had it with towing the Dingy

Idorakeeper,

As someone who has been towing your dinghy, I am sure you appreciate that it has been instantly available for use. Instant use of the dink was a requirement of mine and indeed the davit that I built provides it: Pull the two pins that pass through the gunnel, cast off the hoisting line and......Splash. Took me longer to write it that it takes to do it.

Certainly, any solution for you boat will be quite different than mine. However, if you would like to check out my set-up in person, I will be available tomorrow morning or Wednesday morning to give a demonstration. The boat is in P.T.

Steve

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Old 13-07-2015, 20:54   #43
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Re: I have had it with towing the Dingy

We have davits and we still vote "8' roll up" with a air cooled 2 hp honda engine and do not bother with the davits. You can drag the dinghy for short day sails but roll it up for longer distances.

After crossing the gulf stream in even (admittedly) fairly mild conditions, we won't be carrying the dinghy on the davits anymore. I cannot imagine crossing an ocean or doing a "bahamas to chesapeake" run carrying the dinghy on the stern. Way too dangerous, more windage, more hobby-horsing, and just another thing to worry about.
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Old 13-07-2015, 21:02   #44
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Re: I have had it with towing the Dingy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Idorakeeper,

As someone who has been towing your dinghy, I am sure you appreciate that it has been instantly available for use. Instant use of the dink was a requirement of mine and indeed the davit that I built provides it: Pull the two pins that pass through the gunnel, cast off the hoisting line and......Splash. Took me longer to write it that it takes to do it.

Certainly, any solution for you boat will be quite different than mine. However, if you would like to check out my set-up in person, I will be available tomorrow morning or Wednesday morning to give a demonstration. The boat is in P.T.

Steve

Steve,

Thanks for posting the photo.
A few friendly questions:

1. What keeps the dinghy from swinging in the wind?
2. Do you put the dinghy on deck at all, or mostly keep it there hanging?
3. Why only one davit?

Thanks for any answers.
And…lest anyone think I am challenging Steve, I really respect his vision for Panope and all that he has done to make it such an admirable boat.
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Old 13-07-2015, 21:57   #45
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Re: I have had it with towing the Dingy

Steady, No worries - fire away with the questions.

#1 - In the previous photo you can see a 2 foot long aluminum "channel" covering part of the starboard gunnel of the dinghy. This channel is welded heavily to the davit post. Holes were drilled allowing pins to pass simultaneously through the channel and the gunnel, thus preventing any side to side motion of the dinghy. (The O.P. uses an inflatable so obviously he would need a completely different immobilizing device)

#2 - My dinghy is in the davit most of the time. Occasionally I will tow if I think someone has a camera nearby. Dinghy has never been on deck although that is where it would be if I ever went offshore. No plans for offshore as there is a lifetime of gunk-holing extending 800 miles to the north of me (and the O.P.)

#3 - I chose a single davit because this allows the entire apparatus (dinghy, davit, radar, VHF antenna, deck lights and anchor light) to rotate 180 degrees. This keeps my L.O.A. just under 35 feet. My marina charges by the 5 foot increment. Note: I live in a house on dirt. If I lived aboard (at a dock), this pivoting arrangement would be useless as the after-deck is entirely blocked by the dingy.

The dinghy is set abnormally high in the davit for two reasons: One, it has to clear the pilot house when rotated and Two, when seated in the pilot house, the helms person needs to be able to see (when looking aft) underneath the dinghy. I will never claim that any of this looks great. It does work great however.

Steve


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