I changed my mind

[YachtBroker]

I've got a totally different take on this.

I have owned/sold a lot of boats. Boats that use divers nearly always need a new bottom job every year.

For my personal boats, When it was available two years ago, I used Interlux Ultra with bio lux (the bio lux additive has been taken off the market in the US while they do some EPA BS on trying to get it passed to be put back on the market). The additive really works.

I never use a diver to clean the hull on my personal boat. Hard paint or soft paint all you're doing is paying the guy to scrub off your paint. I use a diver only to clean prop and do zincs.

I do 2 coats on the hull and 4 on the waterline. I've done this with multiple boats that I kept in Texas with 3-4 years betwwen bottom jobs with little to no real growth and NO divers. That is the biolux additive really works.

Current boat was in Texas in brackish water for a year. In Fort Myers (granted up the river some) for 6 months. Key west and Boca Raton for 6 months. Has been in Marsh Harbor Bahamas now for 6 months. I can with a deck brush still wipe off most the growth on the waterline about 12" down. I know I am getting some growth now but still not much on barnacles.

Better paints properly applied and with no one (diver) scrubbing them off monthly or quarterly do work.

I'm about to do a bottom job 2.5 years later and I expect the prep work will be just a pressure wash with little to no barnacle growth.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

Flow helps, but so would the changing salinity that a tidal current brings (assuming you're near to a river/estuary).

Sent from mTalk

I suspect changing salinity is even more helpful in retarding growth; what flourishes in one salinity will suffer as it changes or die outright.

Related to flow, when I am sitting in one place for any extended period I will run the engine with the prop in gear for a few minutes at least once a week. Helps to minimize fouling and barnacles in particular.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Right on the can of Trinidad it says at least two coats. If you don't apply it according to manufacturer recommendations, you can't complain about the product, period.

The best thing you can do to keep your bottom clean with hard paint is sail the boat as often as possible. It makes a huge difference. For example, I took my bottom down, barrier coated, and put three coats of Trinidad in the Chesapeake just about a year ago. I sailed the boat often since then, almost constantly (living aboard and moving around every few days). I hauled the boat in January to have some shaft work done and it was so clean it did not even need power washing, no joke.

Trinidad, like all hard paints, is very sensitive to time out of the water. If you paint the bottom, put it in the water, then haul the boat and it sits on the hard for more than a week, you should put another coat on. There are other recommendations for for how long between painting and splashing, etc. that you should ensure you're familiar with to get the best performance out of the paint.

FYI see if you can find a yard that will sell you Trinidad Pro at their cost, which is around 2/3 the cost of Trinidad SR. It's the same paint to-the-trade labeling.

^^^^

Very god description and explanation. My experience in SF for 18 years exactly. Now I'm on Vancouver Island where the water is 47F instead of 57F and it makes a big difference. Due to a horrible winter, we haven't sailed since early November, but the bottom is still in good shape, no divers here either. Local custom...

Trinidad Pro.

[hamburking]

When I first bought a C&C25 I spent hours sanding and prepping the hull, repainting the waterline, and putting a beautiful coat on the bottom.

The next year I did a little prep, and slapped some bottom paint on.

The following year, I realized most of the paint was still there...until I started to sand it off...so I decided to just leave it. No powerwash, no sanding, no new paint. By the end of the winter on the hard, it looked pretty clean all on its own (thank you wind, snow and rain). I splashed the boat...and there were no complaints from the fish. Long story short, 3 more seasons of not doing the hull at all, and the boat looked just as good.

I sold the boat, and the new owner spent hours sanding and prepping the hull, repainting the waterline, and putting a beautiful coat on the bottom.

Admittedly, I live on a great lake, so fresh water, only an occasional zebra mussel, and only 5 months wet each year. Now I watch the other boats on haulout day, diligently power spraying last years paint off the bottom so they can replace it in the spring. IMHO, this is one area where the recommended maintenance only benefits the paint manufacturers. That stuff aint cheap, and they've got us convinced to repaint every year, rather than when it needs to be done...which IMHO would be more like once every 5 years around here.

Before you all pile on...I'm only talking about fresh water, not salt.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

^^^^

Very god description and explanation. My experience in SF for 18 years exactly. Now I'm on Vancouver Island where the water is 47F instead of 57F and it makes a big difference. Due to a horrible winter, we haven't sailed since early November, but the bottom is still in good shape, no divers here either. Local custom...

Trinidad Pro.

Yeah, here in the PNW I never had a problem with whatever paint I used. Little growth in 2 years... except mossy slime loves to grow. Can grow 6" long in 3 months!

[Geek_Guy]

I repaint every 2-3 years. The advice I have received and believe is that the paint stops the buggers from attaching well. After 2 or so years my diver says that he had a terrible time getting them off. Also the do it yourself marina owner said that after 3+ years the prep often needs grinding, not a light sanding.

[Sandero]

Local conditions make the difference. Same paints different conditions... can't expect same performance.

And this leads me to conclude that the paint is a general solution to a series of fouling problems with multiple factors which contribute to the fouling.

I don't expect a lot of hard paint to come off with monthly brushing.... and of course we know that the club racers have a diver scrub the bottom as frequently as each week.

[Scot McPherson]

The best paints are the ablative paints, but they only work if you actually take your boat out so the paint CAN ablate. I have seen barnacles the size of quarters attached right to ablative paint on a boat that sat in the same spot for 2 years.

[Sandero]

Originally Posted by Scot McPherson

The best paints are the ablative paints, but they only work if you actually take your boat out so the paint CAN ablate. I have seen barnacles the size of quarters attached right to ablative paint on a boat that sat in the same spot for 2 years.

Ablative paints don't work well for sailboats... they go to slow and don't even sail enough when they do.

That's marketing hype for the most part. Interesting concept... and gets people to buy lots of paint and slap on thick multiple layers. Once fouling begins... there is no ablation.

This is pretty unethical of the paint companies.

But that's just one man's opinion.

[Skuzzlebutt]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I've asked myself the same question. And asked aloud here on CF only to be shot down. But one does have to question the use of bottom paint. You have to scrape and clean anyway from my experience. New Pettit Trinidad in the Caribe would get absolutely loaded with big barnacles for me. The problem is the barnacles attach and grow to up to maybe 3/8" diameter before they die. They are still loaded on the bottom even if they are dead. Then you add how ineffective the newer paints are now and it's even worse.
The only paint I ever had done that was worth it in southern climes was the Dutch "submarine paint" put on in Trinidad. Nothing would grow on that. Sitting unused 1.5 years in Fl after a few months spent returning to FL and nothing was on it. I hired a diver when I a sale contract. He came up and told me "there's nothing to do, are you sure it wasnt just done?"


For longevity I suppose multi coats is good, but if the top layer isn't working it doesn't matter if the underlayer is there or not.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is "Dutch submarine paint"?
Thanks!

[Cheechako]

It was a non epa approved bottom paint manufactured by the dutch company Jotun. Not sure they still do.

[topmast]

Used to drop into military surplus in Seattle and score 20lt pails of submarine paint . Great stuff on ferro cement. Probably work on plastic too. Has anyone considered a plastic tarp garage. Pool noodles around to top. Bags of sand to sink the bottom seam .Custom fit to your hull .Draw string after you slip in. If the bugs can't feed they don't grow idea.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Sandero

Am I crazy or what?

I have for 32 years painted the bottom of Shiva. About 10 years ago I soda blasted 20 something years of accumulated paint. I believe it weight as "dust" close to 1,000 pounds. I applied barrier coat and began the painting thing again.

I am using Petit Trinidad. Try to limit the application to a single coat. The paint is not effective in LI sound / Southern New England. Boat is moored in Northport from April/May through November and winter stored in water.

What I have to do is have a diver clean the bottom at least every month to 6 weeks.

So tell me why I am spending a fortune in painting if I have to spend another $700 on divers?

This year I was about to repeat my previous practice and paint the bottom. Paint and supplies here and waiting for weather to get the boat hauled and blocked.

I changed my mind.... I am not going to a short haul, power wash, scrap off any barnacles etc... polish the prop (sanding) apply some spray on zinc to the prop, replace the zinc and splash the boat.

I'll have more frequent dives... and go with last years paint.

Am I crazy?

What say you?

We used Coppercoat on ours - that was back in 2012. Looking at the current condition, we won't be re-doing until at least the 12 year mark - probably more. It cost us twice as much as decent antifouling paint, and the yard charged about double to apply, but we are already way ahead. Either a pressure wash once a year, or a diver going down for a quick clean, and we are right for another season. Makes sense to us.

[19thol]

So, thinking outloud, if your in an area where the water doesn't move much, water is very warm, and no matter what paint you use you're going to have soft growth, so will need a diver to clean periodically, you sould be using hard paint. Good thinking?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by 19thol

So, thinking outloud, if your in an area where the water doesn't move much, water is very warm, and no matter what paint you use you're going to have soft growth, so will need a diver to clean periodically, you sould be using hard paint. Good thinking?

Probably. Every place is different. up here the slimy fine grass grows 6 inches in a month.... in ~55 degree, tidal current water! Other places, same conditions.... not much at all.