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Old 12-11-2017, 14:08   #31
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Re: Hurricane Damaged Boats Available

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Originally Posted by ascarswell View Post
I'm wary as well - more so due to the poster's reluctance to patiently provide concrete details to people looking to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into a vessel. His tone is such that he's doing the purchaser a favor, where I'm sure he stands to make a whole lot of dough if this is, in fact, a legitimate scenario.

I might be interested in the process, but not if someone isn't willing to slow down and exhaustively answer all of my questions.
There probably really is a great place for a knowledgeable very hard working -well funded-well connected --boat repairer/dealer to make these salvaged boats live again... But some Jack the Dreamer WHO ISNT THE ABOVE WONT PULL IT OFF.
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Old 12-11-2017, 14:23   #32
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Re: Hurricane Damaged Boats Available

So an anonymous party, allegedly a boatyard perhaps, says "Have I got a deal for you! Cash only and no guarantees or prices! Mystery box!"

What could possibly be unattractive, or go wrong, with that?
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Old 12-11-2017, 14:29   #33
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Re: Hurricane Damaged Boats Available

Hmmm, here on the ground in Tortola, I have a few comments. Yes, there are some good deals, although quite a few will stay right here, among industry pros. The significant thing is that insurance underwriters generally "total" a boat when estimated repair costs are around 80-85% of the insured value. Currently, most of the underwriters have lowered that percentage to around 60-65% due to the catastrophic number of boats and their anticipation of lots of extra costs in administration, the few yards in operation, and the costs of transportation, elsewhere. Having a boat sit around for six months makes no sense for them, either in storage costs or the costs of continuing deterioration. That said, if one has a way around these problems, there are, and will be, an inventory of boats whose repair will cost much less than their value. But you REAALLY need to know your way around boats, the industry, and the neighborhood, to take advantage of this.

There are a number of teams and individuals from elsewhere, prowling around, obviously looking for the good deals. Some of them present themselves as "boat builders", and I have not doubt that they may be, but if they aren't from here and don't have a viable plan for timely work, someone is going to be on the same hook of escalating expenses that the insurance companies don't want to be on.

While the deal sounds good, and may be good, there are a lot of details that need fleshing out, not the least of which is the cost of transport to St. Maarten, which yard they are planning to use, when will it be available, etc.. Another detail is the fact that the fate of by far the majority of boats, Total Loss or not, is still up in the air as the underwriters, surveyors and adjusters are absolutely swamped. Unless, of course, it was the boat itself that was swamped, in which case a swifter decision is very possible. But the OP said "no hull damage or sinking", and it's just not that easy for a boat to be totaled without some hull damage, at least a little water ingress - perhaps a flooded engine room - and a lost mast. Even if you replace two engines, a generator, and the entire rig, it's hard to get to $250K of damage with a hull that is absolutely untouched......lots of non structural cosmetic damage and stainless work, perhaps, but hardly undamaged.

Oh, and the OP said there are 2000 charter boats in the BVI. The number, which varies annually, is actually 800 - 900, minus a small number who spend hurricane season elsewhere. How do I know this? Was chairman of the Charter Yacht of the BVI for a number of years. It would make me more comfortable if this quite obtainable number were given accurately.

On the other hand, if the OP wants his claims verified in person, well, I do live here........and there certainly will be some good deals.

So don't dismiss the OP, but be careful. I don't think I would want to do this, long distance.

But, best of luck to all.
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Old 12-11-2017, 14:35   #34
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Re: Hurricane Damaged Boats Available

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Hmmm, here on the ground in Tortola, I have a few comments. Yes, there are some good deals, although quite a few will stay right here, among industry pros. The significant thing is that insurance underwriters generally "total" a boat when estimated repair costs are around 80-85% of the insured value. Currently, most of the underwriters have lowered that percentage to around 60-65% due to the catastrophic number of boats and their anticipation of lots of extra costs in administration, the few yards in operation, and the costs of transportation, elsewhere. Having a boat sit around for six months makes no sense for them, either in storage costs or the costs of continuing deterioration. That said, if one has a way around these problems, there are, and will be, an inventory of boats whose repair will cost much less than their value. But you REAALLY need to know your way around boats, the industry, and the neighborhood, to take advantage of this.

There are a number of teams and individuals from elsewhere, prowling around, obviously looking for the good deals. Some of them present themselves as "boat builders", and I have not doubt that they may be, but if they aren't from here and don't have a viable plan for timely work, someone is going to be on the same hook of escalating expenses that the insurance companies don't want to be on.

While the deal sounds good, and may be good, there are a lot of details that need fleshing out, not the least of which is the cost of transport to St. Maarten, which yard they are planning to use, when will it be available, etc.. Another detail is the fact that the fate of by far the majority of boats, Total Loss or not, is still up in the air as the underwriters, surveyors and adjusters are absolutely swamped. Unless, of course, it was the boat itself that was swamped, in which case a swifter decision is very possible. But the OP said "no hull damage or sinking", and it's just not that easy for a boat to be totaled without some hull damage, at least a little water ingress - perhaps a flooded engine room - and a lost mast. Even if you replace two engines, a generator, and the entire rig, it's hard to get to $250K of damage with a hull that is absolutely untouched......lots of non structural cosmetic damage and stainless work, perhaps, but hardly undamaged.

Oh, and the OP said there are 2000 charter boats in the BVI. The number, which varies annually, is actually 800 - 900, minus a small number who spend hurricane season elsewhere. How do I know this? Was chairman of the Charter Yacht of the BVI for a number of years. It would make me more comfortable if this quite obtainable number were given accurately.

On the other hand, if the OP wants his claims verified in person, well, I do live here........and there certainly will be some good deals.

So don't dismiss the OP, but be careful. I don't think I would want to do this, long distance.

But, best of luck to all.
Sanity appears.
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Old 12-11-2017, 14:48   #35
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Re: Hurricane Damaged Boats Available

Some further comments. St.Maarten was devastated, but it is reliably reported that the Dutch side is getting back into operation for boat work. The French side....not so much. It's 100 miles of potentially rough water east of the BVI, and a totaled boat with no hull damage or having not been sunk most likely will have damaged engines and no mast, so we are talking a trip on a barge....not cheap. Maybe the yard in St. Kitts would be a better option....don't know.

The only currently functioning yard in the BVI is Nanny Cay, where an excellent repair can be done (I am hopefully in the process of exactly that on my own boat, as we speak), but they can only do so many boats. Virgin Gorda Yacht Harbour has been seemingly paralyzed.....we all hope that changes. Anyway you look at, it's either a logistical nightmare or likely a lengthy process. Underwriters are understandably taking a while to make payments and they don't own the boat until the insured has been paid, so there's that, too.

Boats are not like cars. When well repaired and surveyed, a boat that has been declared a total loss can be insured in the future. In some ways, the happiest outcome for a heavily damaged boat - let's say the estimates total 60 - 70% of the insured value and much of this is for relatively straightforward damage such as a new rig - is for it to be declared a total loss, then sold back to the owner for a small cost. The owner can then repair it for less than the payout and have some money left to compensate for the fact that the boat will be known to have been damaged in a hurricane. However, that owner will have put a lot of "free" sweat equity into the process, and when you are paying someone else for that, it's far from free! Very far. Plus yard and storage......
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Old 12-11-2017, 15:18   #36
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Re: Hurricane Damaged Boats Available

This is the sort of thing that might be offered by a yard that is short of work. And, indeed, due to delays in hurricane payouts, that is temporarily the case for area yards. This is probably the reason the offer is only for those able to pay cash, immediately. In fact, fronting the cash until the insurance payout arrives, is how I have gotten my own boat hauled and repairs underway, ahead of the pack. I have charters to do. The repairers are very glad for the work, right now. But that will all change in a matter of weeks and it will be very hard to get anything done speedily, as the work volume will be overwhelming as soon as the underwriters start to pay. No one in the industry will be short of work. I hope to be out of the yard by then!

So, it may be that the OP represents a legitimate yard that wants to get working on repairs, right now. But, pretty soon, they will not be short of work. Maybe they want a few boats in the back row for their workers to work on whenever there is a break in new work. There was mention of a "year long" refit process, this on boats whose hulls are undamaged. I suppose that's fine if you are not in a hurry, but I would not want to be on the hook for yard fees and lay days. Perhaps the agreement includes a guaranteed finish date and a flat yard fee for the whole time. I can vaguely see the path to a win/win, if all this is the case, but remember, no yard or boatwright will be short of work, so there is no incentive for any discounts to be given, other than for work started immediately, while the yards aren't too busy. By the time boats are identified, insurance claims settled, etc., that may not be the case.
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Old 12-11-2017, 15:24   #37
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Re: Hurricane Damaged Boats Available

If I were in their position, I cannot think of one reason I would not sell as-is where-is. Most honest dealers would want to get the cash and be done with it.
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Old 12-11-2017, 15:28   #38
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Re: Hurricane Damaged Boats Available

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Originally Posted by captlloyd View Post
Wow ! The skeptics are out in force today !! The mind is like a parachute, it must be open to function.
ROFL

Added to my list of fave quotes!

Regards,
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Old 12-11-2017, 15:43   #39
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Re: Hurricane Damaged Boats Available

WOW
If I leave you guys alone long enough I'll be doing twenty to life for the post.
Look this is legit. Anyone who has an interest in this is REQUIRED to participate from day one. I am suggesting that the proposed purchase is inspected by the buyer or that they hire a surveyor PRIOR to purchase. The vessel will be titled in the buyers name from day one. Participation through out the refit including updates every week on progress, and accounting of funds spent on parts, labour, and yard fees will be done. Someone suggested that we are a couple of boat bumbs who are looking for some easy money, this could not be farther from the truth. I am retired and managed to do so in my 40s so I guess I have some money of my own. My partner in this is a marine mega yacht refit professional with a lot of years experience, who's work I have seen extensively including the work he has done for me. Of course we are going to make some money on this, it is going to be a lot of work and I do not know anyone who works for free with the skills they possess.We are looking to work on 5 boats at the same time to keep a large crew going continuously, with no down time and loss of productivity. Are we cagey, you bet there are a lot of broke dreamers out there who want a million dollar boat for ten grand and many of them populate these forums.
I have laid out the plan in the original post
If it sounds like something you can afford, and are interested pm me
I do not want any money sent to my account in Africa
We can discuss all the details with people who are interested, and financially capable at that time.
If we go forward with a buyer we will be vetting them as well to make sure they are not going to start something they cannot finish. Proof of their financial capability will be required.
Also we are buying a couple of boats for resale ourselves so we are participating with our own money.
Lastly this has the potential to never get off the ground as we are at the whim of the insurance companies and until we get there and buy the boats things could change.
This is a good opportunity for someone to get a lot more boat than they pay for, plain and simple. If you do not want to participate I fail to see the purpose of shooting down someone else's chance with negative BS.
I was reluctant to post this on here for this very reason.
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Old 12-11-2017, 15:59   #40
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Re: Hurricane Damaged Boats Available

Scam, scam, scam.

https://youtu.be/A4N-TkpEQRo

The whole 18 min video is worth watching, but especially around 5:15 in this case.
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Old 12-11-2017, 16:23   #41
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Re: Hurricane Damaged Boats Available

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Originally Posted by rourkeh View Post
WOW
If I leave you guys alone long enough I'll be doing twenty to life for the post. Look this is legit. Anyone who has an interest in this is REQUIRED to participate from day one. I do not want any money sent to my account in Africa
So WHY do you require the buyer to agree to only doing refit with you?

WHY NOT sell as-is where-is for a fixed (not open-ended) price?

Could it be that 40% profit isn't nearly enough? Could it be that the plan is to fleece the buyer in refit?

Nice try, but the folks in this forum aren't stupid.
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Old 12-11-2017, 17:43   #42
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Re: Hurricane Damaged Boats Available

Sounds legit to me, armchair sailors on this thread go find an anchor or gun thread to waste your time in...

There are allot people interested in these boats (not me) and someone here is in a position physically and with the resources to do something with them, hats off, if I make it back there this season ill be looking for work putting boats back together and im sure there will be no shortage. This is not Craigslist. I don't know the op but have no reason to doubt any of this.

What yard are you working out of? Ill look you up when I get there
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Old 12-11-2017, 18:06   #43
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Re: Hurricane Damaged Boats Available

This is a perfectly good business plan, but it does require buyer's involvement and due diligence to get to know the OP and his groups capabilities.

OP states, insurance write off boats with no hull damage, no flooding so odds are mostly beaching and dismastings when the docks failed.

I would proceed as follows

Detailed assessment of damages by the Owner or his representative.

Research on the availability of replacement and price of salvaged parts from other same model boats

I can see a great opportunity for local cruisers to get involved in this "Phoenix" model as salvagers and Owner's Rep to piece together a solid rebuild with no structural defects but obviously less than factory finish.

I would structure the deal as ("Time and Materials, But Not To Exceed"), once you have been there and done your due diligence.

Hopefully this will also help existing technical cruisers in the area to rebuild their Kitty, by getting them involved in finding the salvaged parts.
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Old 12-11-2017, 18:49   #44
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Re: Hurricane Damaged Boats Available

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
This is a perfectly good business plan, but it does require buyer's involvement and due diligence to get to know the OP and his groups capabilities.

OP states, insurance write off boats with no hull damage, no flooding so odds are mostly beaching and dismastings when the docks failed.

I would proceed as follows

Detailed assessment of damages by the Owner or his representative.

Research on the availability of replacement and price of salvaged parts from other same model boats

I can see a great opportunity for local cruisers to get involved in this "Phoenix" model as salvagers and Owner's Rep to piece together a solid rebuild with no structural defects but obviously less than factory finish.

I would structure the deal as ("Time and Materials, But Not To Exceed"), once you have been there and done your due diligence.

Hopefully this will also help existing technical cruisers in the area to rebuild their Kitty, by getting them involved in finding the salvaged parts.

As usual Pelagic voices intelligence and rationale.

If u want a great deal get on a plane and go make your own deal. Money talks bullship walks.
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Old 12-11-2017, 19:42   #45
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Re: Hurricane Damaged Boats Available

Could not agree more. An aggressive, grumpy sales approach. Smacks of corruption! Beware buyers!
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