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Old 07-06-2014, 17:43   #61
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Re: Hull Peelers Vs. Sanding

Rolled on epoxy today and troweled two 407 mixes. Long day! Here are some pictures.

West 105 with no pigment


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we did the next coat with west grey pigment which was not really visible, did subsequent coats with green and red

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Then troweled some 407

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And then one more 407

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Let the sanding begin...
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Old 07-06-2014, 18:18   #62
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Re: Hull Peelers Vs. Sanding

Not bad! Good to see you went for the whole hog in the end. How'd it go? Pretty tough day, eh? Epoxy in yer hair?


Whatcha sanding with?
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Old 07-06-2014, 21:19   #63
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Re: Hull Peelers Vs. Sanding

I re-read the entire Interprotect 2000 pdf. You're right, I stand corrected. I need a coat or two of Epiglass to seal the raw laminate. Yuck ... one more step and one more thing to buy.
I've started sanding the bottom. I started with a 6" random orbit with 40 grit ... ya, right ... so I bought a 7" grinder at Harbor Freight (7800 rpm). The discs just flew off. After a phone call with Oceanside Marine Center I got a low speed sander/polisher. I bought my neighbors variable speed that he got for surf boards. He should have gotten a 4" random orbit.
Now, with 36 grit and the right machine I'm slowly working my way along the keel. What a dirty job, but some one has to do it. I use the worn out discs to remove the old paint, then put on a new disc to take off the gelcoat.
Minaret ... very much enjoyed reading all your posts in this thread. I'm using the sander flat at much as possible. So far I'm in areas where the gelcoat is a consistant thickness.
Remember, this boat has been out of the water for over 25 years. Most of my gelcoat damage is not blisters, although there are a lot of very tiny ones, I think sitting in the sun for that many years the gelcoat just shrank and cracked. None of the damage entered the laminate layers.
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Old 07-06-2014, 21:26   #64
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Re: Hull Peelers Vs. Sanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasing Summer View Post
I re-read the entire Interprotect 2000 pdf. You're right, I stand corrected. I need a coat or two of Epiglass to seal the raw laminate. Yuck ... one more step and one more thing to buy.
I've started sanding the bottom. I started with a 6" random orbit with 40 grit ... ya, right ... so I bought a 7" grinder at Harbor Freight (7800 rpm). The discs just flew off. After a phone call with Oceanside Marine Center I got a low speed sander/polisher. I bought my neighbors variable speed that he got for surf boards. He should have gotten a 4" random orbit.
Now, with 36 grit and the right machine I'm slowly working my way along the keel. What a dirty job, but some one has to do it. I use the worn out discs to remove the old paint, then put on a new disc to take off the gelcoat.
Minaret ... very much enjoyed reading all your posts in this thread. I'm using the sander flat at much as possible. So far I'm in areas where the gelcoat is a consistant thickness.
Remember, this boat has been out of the water for over 25 years. Most of my gelcoat damage is not blisters, although there are a lot of very tiny ones, I think sitting in the sun for that many years the gelcoat just shrank and cracked. None of the damage entered the laminate layers.


Way to go! It's tough work, but no one will do it for you without charging an exorbitant sum. Keep at it, and you'll be sailing before you know it. The misery part will just be a distant memory. Variable speed really does help. Watch those half moon gouges at the turn of the bilge, you have to twist the grinder just right and move fast while feathering the trigger...



I'd use WEST instead of Epiglass myself.
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Old 07-06-2014, 21:59   #65
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Re: Hull Peelers Vs. Sanding

On the bilge turn I hold the head of the machine by the loop handle so I can work the entire curve by rotating the disc, then I lift top and bottom before moving over and going the other direction. Kinda like what you do with the trigger action. Light action ... this isn't the place for fast heavy cutting.
Since you're monitoring this thread I have another issue to run by you. My keel bolts. ... There are 9 if them. Two patterns of 4, then a single at the bow. One of the nuts just twisted off in my hand; corroded all the way through. I've not even put a socket to the other 8. Assuming the other bolts "seem" good, they don't fall of in my hand, how do you suggest testing them? What a shame to put in this much time, effort, and money just to have to boat turn turtle the first time she heels. :-)
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Old 07-06-2014, 22:20   #66
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Re: Hull Peelers Vs. Sanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasing Summer View Post
On the bilge turn I hold the head of the machine by the loop handle so I can work the entire curve by rotating the disc, then I lift top and bottom before moving over and going the other direction. Kinda like what you do with the trigger action. Light action ... this isn't the place for fast heavy cutting.
Since you're monitoring this thread I have another issue to run by you. My keel bolts. ... There are 9 if them. Two patterns of 4, then a single at the bow. One of the nuts just twisted off in my hand; corroded all the way through. I've not even put a socket to the other 8. Assuming the other bolts "seem" good, they don't fall of in my hand, how do you suggest testing them? What a shame to put in this much time, effort, and money just to have to boat turn turtle the first time she heels. :-)



A good quality surveyor can help you inspect by x ray or ultrasound in a non invasive fashion. This is most often done on bigger boats, as it's not cheap. On a smaller boat, odds are it is cheaper to pull one or two bolts for inspection, if the construction method allows. If you have J bolts you must drop the whole ballast keel to visually inspect.
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Old 07-06-2014, 23:02   #67
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Re: Hull Peelers Vs. Sanding

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Not bad! Good to see you went for the whole hog in the end. How'd it go? Pretty tough day, eh? Epoxy in yer hair?





Whatcha sanding with?

I was thinking of my long boards with 80 grit and my random orbital vacuum with 80 grit 6" discs. What should I use? I don't have a Flexicat!
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Old 07-06-2014, 23:42   #68
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Re: Hull Peelers Vs. Sanding

They are 1" stainless steel bolts. I've contacted, in the past, other Spencer owners and none know if they are J bolts or all-thread with washers or a plate.
Would I be safe to put a lot of torque on the nuts? Just throwing out numbers here ... if, say I put 300 ftlb torque on a nut it's probably a good bolt? I'm I good with 8 out 9 bolts?
Several months ago I talked with a company in the east coast and they told me how they take a keel and simply melt the lead away from the bad bolt, replace it and re-pour that section. It doesn't cost that much but shipping a 9K lb keel across country ... well, can't do that.
When I took the boat off the cradle and put it on stands so Willmington Boat Movers could pick it up the keel was just hanging for a short time before I put timber under it. So, I know it won't just "fall" off.
Oh, well, tomorrow I sand some more until it either gets hot or my arms fall off.
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Old 08-06-2014, 07:44   #69
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Re: Hull Peelers Vs. Sanding

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Originally Posted by shamrock View Post
I was thinking of my long boards with 80 grit and my random orbital vacuum with 80 grit 6" discs. What should I use? I don't have a Flexicat!


You'll do fine with that, except I'd go to 60 grit.
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Old 08-06-2014, 07:48   #70
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Re: Hull Peelers Vs. Sanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasing Summer View Post
They are 1" stainless steel bolts. I've contacted, in the past, other Spencer owners and none know if they are J bolts or all-thread with washers or a plate.
Would I be safe to put a lot of torque on the nuts? Just throwing out numbers here ... if, say I put 300 ftlb torque on a nut it's probably a good bolt? I'm I good with 8 out 9 bolts?
Several months ago I talked with a company in the east coast and they told me how they take a keel and simply melt the lead away from the bad bolt, replace it and re-pour that section. It doesn't cost that much but shipping a 9K lb keel across country ... well, can't do that.
When I took the boat off the cradle and put it on stands so Willmington Boat Movers could pick it up the keel was just hanging for a short time before I put timber under it. So, I know it won't just "fall" off.
Oh, well, tomorrow I sand some more until it either gets hot or my arms fall off.


I've pulled all bolts and seen the keel just hang on 5200 alone on some big ballast keels. That means nothing. Mars builds the keels in the first place, they are the only ones who can generally repair in that fashion. Usually only an option for boats with a keel small enough to ship.
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Old 08-06-2014, 16:47   #71
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Re: Hull Peelers Vs. Sanding

... the stuff they don't tell you in "own your own boat school"
Can some one please loan me an air cooled suit? Thank you :-) ... oh, and an extra set of arms
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Old 08-06-2014, 17:47   #72
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Re: Hull Peelers Vs. Sanding

Minaret ... seriously, does anyone make an aircooled suit? and, I'm using 36 grit Norton BlueFire 8" discs. They last about 3 minutes on gelcoat, then they are good for another 3 or so minutes on bottom paint. Is there a better brand of disc? I get them at an autobody supply place. They carry 3M but only had 40 grit.
Thanks
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Old 08-06-2014, 18:40   #73
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Re: Hull Peelers Vs. Sanding

I used 3m Green Corps 36 grit. they lasted a long time, not cheap though.
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Old 09-06-2014, 07:21   #74
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Re: Hull Peelers Vs. Sanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasing Summer View Post
Minaret ... seriously, does anyone make an aircooled suit? and, I'm using 36 grit Norton BlueFire 8" discs. They last about 3 minutes on gelcoat, then they are good for another 3 or so minutes on bottom paint. Is there a better brand of disc? I get them at an autobody supply place. They carry 3M but only had 40 grit.
Thanks


Sure!



Breathecool II Supplied Air Respirator System w/tyvek hood - Scba Safety Respirators - Amazon.com




This is a cheap forced air hood system. Good ones cost a lot. You will note if you do some research that there is much debate on hoods. They are great for certain tasks, but have many drawbacks. Visibility is poor, and the hood makes your head huge. No working in tight spaces. But they do keep you cool and clean. Personally I won't use one, but I own high end forced air fullface systems, which are much superior.



http://www.amazon.com/SAS-Safety-980...ace+respirator




This is a cheap forced air fullface. Still an excellent system. Much better than a hood. Not as good at keeping you cool, but still a huge improvement.



If you already have an oil less compressor, you can get a Class D rig which will filter shop air enough for you to breathe. Much cheaper this way $400-$500. Can't find a link now.




You want the purple 3M discs. They last much longer.



New arms come with time. It's brutal work, I've seen big burly guys break out in tears. Stay hydrated and take care of yourself; it's no joke.
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Old 09-06-2014, 07:42   #75
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Re: Hull Peelers Vs. Sanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasing Summer View Post
... the stuff they don't tell you in "own your own boat school"
Can some one please loan me an air cooled suit? Thank you :-) ... oh, and an extra set of arms



Curious why you didn't have it peeled? Have you considered a hard pad grinder for this job? I'd 16 grit that sucker if I had to do it that way, break out the big guns. That is a big bottom to 36 grit all the way to bare glass!
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