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Old 21-11-2015, 09:47   #91
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Re: Hull painting with Roller and Tipping

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Ummmm, I believe when working in a boat in a yard, it is the doers responsibility to ensure that their actions do not cause negative environmental or personal property impact.

If a person plans to sandblast their boat (or do any other work that will cause airborne contaminants), they either need to skirt their boat completely to keep contaminants in, or cover nearby boats to keep contaminants out.

I subcontract to sand blasting companies and they know full well the issue. Any sandblaster who claims it is my responsibility to clean up after, I won't hire. Then there is no incentive on their part to exercise non-destructive environmental and property protection procedures.

And boy, have I seen what happens when these guys are let loose to blast away. 20 boats in a yard contaminated to clean the bottom of one.

Controlling air-borne contaminants when sandblasting a boat is equally important as a powerboater controlling their wake. If either damages someone else's property, that owner has every right to complain and expect proper redress.

Regarding offering to wash his boat, that was a responsible and courteous offer, but there are a number of things at play here:

1. I believe he is correct in saying that is not the point, the point is, the contaminants should be controlled at the source, so that he is not negatively impacted in the first place.

2. Nobody but nobody touches my boat, unless I am very sure they are more qualified than I (and there are very few). A well meaning person, could easily do further damage, mopping sandblasting grit into the gelcoat or paint finish.

3. Whether the other boat is POS or Mega Yacht to the doer, makes no difference to the owner, it may be everything they have, and represent their entire life's work and dream.

4. I know first hand how upsetting this can be. I've had to remove sandblasting grit from the exterior of my entire boat, and then service all winches to ensure the grit did not get into them. It took two full days. Had it not been a dear friend, they would have received a bill. Those two full days I could have been working on someone else's boat making full hourly rate. It likely have cost them twice what they paid for the sandblasting job (in their case, 1 days work).

5. Many yards have policies in place, defining the procedures that must be employed to prevent this type of problem.

6. When situations like this occur, it makes it harder for others in the future, regardless how good they are about minding other people's property.

As a professional yacht service provider, I have to be extremely careful about this kind of stuff. Repairing ten other boats after working on one, is not profitable. There is no obligation on any owner to let me perform the redress, they can call in who ever they want and invoice me. If I couldn't afford it, it would be an insurance claim, that could put my premiums so high, it would put me out of business.

RamblinRod
About Sheen Marine



Too true. There are a whole lot of corners being cut here.
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Old 21-11-2015, 12:21   #92
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Re: Hull painting with Roller and Tipping

Rod--good post.
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Old 21-11-2015, 14:17   #93
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Re: Hull painting with Roller and Tipping

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Presumably this isn't your main engine pickup point, that wants to be at least an inch or more (say 2") above the lowest point IMO.
Then you want a drain at the very bottom to remove water and crud etc. The drain can be another tube with a small pump or can be a bung in the hull that you can drain when you slip.

If you ever plan to fuel polish, you could use this drain pickup.
I'm working on the bung installment. The welder is coming back tomorrow.

I got the impression from other CF posts on fuel that the engine pick up should be as low in the tank as possible so that it continually picks up the fuel from the deepest point
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Old 21-11-2015, 14:39   #94
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Re: Hull painting with Roller and Tipping

Ramblinrod- thanks for your post. You do make some sensible comments. And I'm quite conscious the 'wrong' here is on me and the blasters. I don't want to turn this into a 'sandblasting' thread though as the honest real life situation here is not what your suggesting. The guys were 'wet blasting' not dry. There was not clouds of dust going everywhere. Boats have not been damaged. Boats have not been covered in sand. One person has been inconvenienced 'by the noise' and he lost three days working on his boat.

In hindsight a number of things needs to be done differently in future, such as more tarps by the blasters. The main problem was the 'sound' which was pretty bad for three days.

Yesterday being Saturday had the two remaining boat owners turn up. One is immediately beside me. Both are happy and still chatting to me without any problems.

So thanks for your comments. They are quite correct. Lesson learned and now back to the 'painting'. I'm hoping to put on three coats of two pack red oxide today with 'brushes and rollers'.
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Old 21-11-2015, 15:08   #95
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Re: Hull painting with Roller and Tipping

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Yesterday being Saturday had the two remaining boat owners turn up. One is immediately beside me. Both are happy and still chatting to me without any problems.

So thanks for your comments. They are quite correct. Lesson learned and now back to the 'painting'. I'm hoping to put on three coats of two pack red oxide today with 'brushes and rollers'.
Excellent news!

Right, keep us posted with how the painting goes. The best advice an interior decorator gave me was to use a 9" roller on an extension pole, and just do big vertical sweeps to keep the wet edge. Worked really well for me; good luck with your finish!

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Old 21-11-2015, 15:15   #96
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Re: Hull painting with Roller and Tipping

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post

I got the impression from other CF posts on fuel that the engine pick up should be as low in the tank as possible so that it continually picks up the fuel from the deepest point
No. .....that is incorrect, Wotname is exactly right....
.....you want your engine pickup away from any possibility of sucking in water/sludge or any other contamination in the fuel that could shut down engine in minutes
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Old 21-11-2015, 15:18   #97
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Re: Hull painting with Roller and Tipping

You want the fuel pickup to be just off the bottom in the deepest part of the tank. A sump and drain, also at the deep end, allows sediment and water to be removed. Clean-outs in the top of the diesel tank for cleaning.
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Old 21-11-2015, 17:26   #98
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Re: Hull painting with Roller and Tipping

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
It's solid and certainly looks like it's been poured in. Pretty much like some sort of resin. I'm moving my tank outlet tube to the deepest point so that it continually sucks up and filters contaminates and water.
Is it stuck to the bottom of the tank? Cannot be easily scraped up? Could that be a form of repair to a possible hole? You mentioned you drilled a hole into the tank, perhaps you were not the first person to do so.
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Old 21-11-2015, 18:37   #99
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Re: Hull painting with Roller and Tipping

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Rustic, I'm concerned about the quick rusting after blasting you are seeing. The rust is proof that the blasted steel has contamination - typically referred to as "salts" on the surface.


Good luck on your project.
Having painted a fair bit of steel, this is a great observation.

Blasting in a boatyard seems really unusual in this day and age. I may have missed it but are you slurry blasting.

A quick search of the web will uncover some great info on painting steel for the marine enviroment. International paints publish some.

Worth doing the job properly once.
As the saying goes " only a rich man can afford a cheap repair on a boat".
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Old 21-11-2015, 22:35   #100
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Re: Hull painting with Roller and Tipping

Got one coat of oxide on. That's 4ltrs a side it takes. I allowed 12 liters to do the job. But it's clear I need 24 liters to give 3 coats all round.

After I washed off the acid, the hull started to 'flash' rust again. But, I then immediately washed it with Norglass Clean, which is like using acetone on it. That stopped the rusting from occurring. It's windy down here today and one of my helpers didn't come. So just one coat. Hopefully through the week after work I'll get another coat on it.
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Old 21-11-2015, 23:36   #101
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Re: Hull painting with Roller and Tipping

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You want the fuel pickup to be just off the bottom in the deepest part of the tank. A sump and drain, also at the deep end, allows sediment and water to be removed. Clean-outs in the top of the diesel tank for cleaning.
You and Pelagic seem to be contradicting each other here I'm a bit confused.

I thought in a 'sail' boat where the fuel is often in a washing machine, and crud and water gets mixed up continually, the idea is to have the outlet to the filters in the deepest spot, so that the fuel is at all times being cleaned via the filters?
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Old 22-11-2015, 02:47   #102
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Re: Hull painting with Roller and Tipping

Terra Nova explained it better "off the bottom" is the key part so sludge cannot settle in the outlet.

Then have a small draining valve AT the bottom to drain off accumulated contaminates BEFORE you go to Sea.
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Old 22-11-2015, 03:09   #103
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Re: Hull painting with Roller and Tipping

I guess it all depends of what "just off the bottom" really is in terms of distance.

I suggest it means 1 to 2 inches, not 1 to 2 millimetres

However the real distance depends very much on the shape of the tank and the size of any sump.

On my small 25 litre tank, the engine outlet is 1.5 inches above the bottom of the sump part but the sump only contains about 300 or 400 millilitres.

Wherever it is, it should never be able to suck up crud during normal sailing use. If you want to use filters to clean or polish you fuel, their pickup should be right at / near the bottom IMO.
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Old 22-11-2015, 03:36   #104
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Re: Hull painting with Roller and Tipping

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Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan View Post
Blasting in a boatyard seems really unusual in this day and age. I may have missed it but are you slurry blasting.
Au contraire, I can think of six or seven yards in the UK that regularly blast boats (mine was one of them), and then the yard we're at in Portugal has also just done a 15m steel boat.

I'd guess it's more down to local rules and regs, as to where blasting is still allowed to take place.

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Old 22-11-2015, 04:01   #105
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Re: Hull painting with Roller and Tipping

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I guess it all depends of what "just off the bottom" really is in terms of distance.

I suggest it means 1 to 2 inches, not 1 to 2 millimetres

However the real distance depends very much on the shape of the tank and the size of any sump.

On my small 25 litre tank, the engine outlet is 1.5 inches above the bottom of the sump part but the sump only contains about 300 or 400 millilitres.

Wherever it is, it should never be able to suck up crud during normal sailing use. If you want to use filters to clean or polish you fuel, their pickup should be right at / near the bottom IMO.
Ok. My keel tank seems to be stepped down three steps. The engine pick up was on the highest step, perhaps 25mm (1inch) above that step. But then, it stepped down about 100mm, then again about 200mm. It's even possible there's another step in the very rear of the keel. I can see into that compartment but work out if it's stepped. All up, this means my engine pick up is at least 300mm above the very bottom of the tank.

But if your just suggesting and inch or two from the lowest spot, then that's good, I can make that happen and still cut down on the amount of fuel I currently can't access.
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