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Old 06-11-2014, 11:52   #31
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Re: Hull-Keel separation issue

Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
Now I am getting more confused. Some marine pros at our DYI yard recommended using 5200 BECAUSE it was flexible (as compared to just epoxying the cloth around the crack). But some here are cautioning against it because it is not flexible enough. What's up with that?
I don't think flexing is the issue, 5200 is darn near a structural adhesive, it's usually considered to be a permanent bond, I use it on things I never intend to remove.

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Old 06-11-2014, 12:15   #32
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Re: Hull-Keel separation issue

Some practical considerations:
1.) why drop the keel if there is no problem?
2.) If you've tested your keel bolts and there is no rust/corrosion
why are you concerned?
3.) the keel joint will always crack whether it is glassed(not good) or
filled with the sealant of your choice.
My solution to your concern
was to grind a "v" in the upper and lower mating surfaces of the keel, seal the
abraded areas with thickened West System epoxy and then, after it has cured, fill with the
sealant of your choice. This is a "flexible joint." Leave it flexible and
reseal when the old material degrades. It has worked well for me for
18 years with a solid connection, no leaks and no problems. Good luck and good sailing.

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
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Old 06-11-2014, 18:35   #33
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Re: Hull-Keel separation issue

The water supports the boat when she's afloat. When she's hauled, most of her weight is on the keel (unless she's in straps), with various supports and stabilizing posts. Setting her down can pop the sealant out of the stubbie to keel groove. It's not generally a too big deal. Just seal it back up (not using 5200). The OP trusts the yard; go with their recommendation.

Ann & Jim, U.S. s/v Insatiable II, SE Qld, for a while
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:52   #34
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Re: Hull-Keel separation issue

I am planning to drop the lead keel on my 1973 Pearson 36. The keel is attached by 8-5/8" bolts that I believe are Monel. Once I free the nuts in the bilge and open the seam between the lead and the keel stub, I am a bit worried that some of the 42 year old silicone may impede the separation of the hull from the lead.

I plan to block the lead keel with scaffolding clamps and pipes and then use a crane to lift the boat about 2" to allow me to clean the top of the lead and bottom of the keel stub.

I will expose the seam between the lead and the keel stub and try to get a thin hacksaw blade or a wire saw in between to clean or cut any old silicone without cutting the keel bolts.

Then I want to use Sikaflex to reseal the keel bolts and add a bead of sealant around the top of the lead, but not completely cover the top of the keel.

Does anyone know what solvent I could pour into the bilge around the keel bolts that would help dissolve any residual silicone?

I saw on the net a photo of a blocked keel using scaffolding parts, if anyone could post a photo of a similar arrangement, I would be most grateful.
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:36   #35
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Re: Hull-Keel separation issue

Dow Corning DS-2025 Silicone Cleaning Solvent has been specifically developed to digest silicone deposits through depolymerisation and dissolution, leaving a silicone free surface.
Gord May
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:38   #36
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Re: Hull-Keel separation issue

To GordMay,

thanks for the information about Dow Corning Silicone Solvent. Unfortunately, I was told by the Belgian distributor that it is only available in 25 liter cans, that's TWENTY FIVE LITERS... for 400!!!

There are other products out there in smaller quantities, one is MarineFormula Adhesive remover and general cleaner by DeBond

I will buy some more of that product and give it a shot.


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Old 02-02-2015, 03:45   #37
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Re: Hull-Keel separation issue

Part of the mystery of what the keel bolts on a P36-1 are made from has been solved. They are bronze. I had to cut one that was protruding into the bilge 1" shorter to fit a 5" deep socket over the stud and nut.

I spent the weekend on my stomach with a Dremel cutting away old epoxy/collodial silica and MarineTex from the mast step to expose the nuts on the keel bolts. One of the POs had poured epoxy over the bilge in front of the mast step and over parts of the mast step in what I suppose was an attempt to stop leaking.

Skylark has a 1mm "Pearson smile" about 18 inches from the front of the lead/keel stub joint aft. I tried to patch the smile two years ago with epoxy and collodial silica, just "spackling the crack", but that didn't last. Water is entering the crack and seam between the lead and the keel stub, then the water migrates up through the keel bolt holes past the 42 year old silicone.

If there was any attempt to stop the leaking, it was done by unscrewing the nuts, pouring epoxy over the exposed keel bolt and then putting the nuts back over the studs.

I just want to drop the lead, recaulk the bolts where they exit the lead and enter the keel stub, but I have to remove all the epoxy and MarineTex down to the fiberglass of the bilge. Otherwise, the keel bolts can't come out of their holes in the bilge.

I have contacted George Symon, who confirmed that the keel bolts in his P36-1 are bronze "J" bolts. So that is good news. If the studs were iron or stainless, there might be corrosion issues between the lead and the keel stub.

Here's a photo of what I am dealing with, it shows the poured epoxy. The iron mast step will be replaced with a new aluminum step.

Has anyone had their lead keel dropped and recaulked by a yard? I am wondering how much this costs. I know the whole procedure will take a few days.
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Old 02-02-2015, 05:10   #38
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Re: Hull-Keel separation issue

Hi George...

It probably would have been better to start your own thread... But I'll throw my 2 cents in...

I've dropped a few keels, and rebedded successfully... All I can say about the epoxy cap is that it's a really good thing your bolts were bronze... Your picture didn't attach, but maybe you can get a nice circle cut around the stud/nut with a hole saw with the center set deep to start, and removed once you have a groove going...

You should not have cut off your "pilot stud". This would have let you lift the keel 5" plus the thickness of the stub/nut combo without having to relocate the studs in the stub holes... Probably 10" which is plenty to clean and prep... 2" won't be nearly enough....

Once you have the mating surfaces pristine clean... You really should prep the keel face with an epoxy bed thickened with colloidal silica... use a grinding disk with wet epoxy on the lead-add a layer of thickened epoxy to the wet keel face-place a release fabric on top of the mess and drop the boat snugging up a few nuts and squaring the keel....

Once your epoxy is set, relift the boat, clean like you're prepping for surgery, goop with way more Sika or 4200 than you think you need, drop again, check alignment, and crank on the nuts...

That's the cliff notes anyway...

We'll take it one step at a time ...

pic=12k lb/ 5.5k kg keel off... Notice the pilot stud aft?
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In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair...

Mai Tai's fix everything...
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hull, keel

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